Tommy Hanson

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Like I said, this decision must be motivated by money. aren't most [/QUOTE]Yes, but you and Todd were arguing that it was a baseball decision, that the Braves' rotation was already set without him and that he needed time at Triple-A. I think this is all a dollars and cents decision, not a common sense decision. Glad you finally agree with me.

[Gordon Gekko II]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Like I said, this decision must be motivated by money. aren't most [/QUOTE]Yes, but you and Todd were arguing that it was a baseball decision, that the Braves' rotation was already set without him and that he needed time at Triple-A. I think this is all a dollars and cents decision, not a common sense decision. Glad you finally agree with me. [/QUOTE]atlanta is UNDER .500!!! they know they aren't making the playoffs.

[Crazy Like a Fox]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by ToddZ:

They have 4 MLB starters with Vazquez, Lowe, Jurrjens and Kawakami. They are keeping #5 warm for Tom Glavine, with Tim Hudson lurking.



I don't think they want to bounce Hanson around, when he's up, he's up for good. I don't think it has anything to do with innings or arbitration etc.



If the Glavine comeback fails, Hudson could be ready in August. Or maybe it is Tommy-time.



The wild card is Kawakami, who I think will still be okay. Sorry Todd, but if this really is their logic then they miss Schuerholz badly. Kawakami is 2-5 with a 5.73 ERA and the Braves are 2.5 games out of first place. Hanson is pitching lights out at Triple-A and could possibly have won three extra games for this team, putting them in first place. I look at what Hanson is doing in the minors and can only think this is a business decision, not putting your best players on the field.



This kid has pitched this way for better than a year. If they want to win the NL East, promote Hanson and make Kawakami earn the fifth spot.



No way would I let him waste in the minors now with a division up for grabs. [/QUOTE]Good post Greg. I agree 100%. This kid is too good not to be in the majors. Has he had one bad minor league start yet? Dominant in AA last year. The most dominant pitching performance (by far) ever in the AFL. Dominant in spring training. Now, dominant in AAA. I see a trend here. Am I the only one that was a little surprised he didn't start the year in the rotation? I know they were pushing for him to start AAA, but just the little I saw of his stuff in spring training, he was very impressive. He had hitters shaking their heads at his stuff.



I think he comes up on June 1st or soon after and is good right away. I don't see a Hughes(like) implosion.



I said it before. I'd rather have 4 months out of Tommy Hanson than 6 months out of Jordan Zimmerman. Hanson's on another level.

[NorCalAtlFan]

"Sorry Todd, but if this really is their logic then they miss Schuerholz badly."



If Schuerholz was still the GM, he would have traded Hanson:P



As a Braves fan, I hope he comes up soon. And if it's a business decision to avoid Super 2, whatever. I love baseball, but it isn't a fan friendly game anymore. As long as they are making the $$$, what do they care what we the fans think?

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Like I said, this decision must be motivated by money. aren't most [/QUOTE]Yes, but you and Todd were arguing that it was a baseball decision, that the Braves' rotation was already set without him and that he needed time at Triple-A. I think this is all a dollars and cents decision, not a common sense decision. Glad you finally agree with me. [/QUOTE]atlanta is UNDER .500!!! they know they aren't making the playoffs. [/QUOTE]The Braves are 18-19. Hanson is also one game under .500 at Triple-A. They're made for each other!!

[Liquidhippo]

The money is already spent on Kawakami whether he starts or not. It all depends on what their priorities are. If not admitting that they made a mistake is more important than winning and making money, they'll stick with Kawakami(and consequently lose even more money as potential W's turn into L's). If having the best players on the field, winning, and making money are important, then we'll see Hanson June 1st or shortly thereafter.

[NorCalAtlFan]

that's typical gekko logic. by his standard, there are no races left except the tigers/royals and phillies/mutts. the cubs are 2 back, so they might be out of in the central.

[ToddZ]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Like I said, this decision must be motivated by money. aren't most [/QUOTE]Yes, but you and Todd were arguing that it was a baseball decision, that the Braves' rotation was already set without him and that he needed time at Triple-A. I think this is all a dollars and cents decision, not a common sense decision. Glad you finally agree with me. [/QUOTE]For the record, I'm not saying I agree with the decision, especially in a very winnable division.



I'm just pointing out why I think they are doing what they are doing.



I suspect I am a bit more optimistic that Kawakami turns it around, his walk rate is so out of line with what he did in Japan. I'm beginning to wonder if they are playing an evil joke on us and Uehara is the one with the Braves and Kawakami with Baltimore. Their lines look like they are juxtaposed.



That said, Kawakami had back issues last season and shoulder woes in the spring, there very well could be an opportunity there for Hanson as well.

[DOUGHBOYS]

In English, the word, Kawakami, means...



"I miss pitching to Japanese hitters"

[Glenneration X]

Trevor Cahill, Brett Anderson, Jordan Zimmerman, Phil Hughes, Johnny Cuerto, Clay Buchholz, Clayton Kershaw, Homer Bailey, Max Scherzer, Ian Kennedy, etc, etc, etc.....



Just throwing out the names of some of the other pitching saviors for both major league & fantasy teams that have made their rookie debuts the past two years after dominating MINOR LEAGUE hitters.....my point being is it just doesn't happen.



The Braves are protecting their investment & making a business decision vs. putting in a rookie pitcher that history has shown will go through growing pains anyway and struggle to perform better than the player he'd be replacing anyway.



When was the last rookie pitcher to be a top ten fantasy pitcher....Doc Gooden? (oh the wasted talent)..... I'm sure there must be one since then, just can't think of one off the top of my head.

[NorCalAtlFan]

i hear you. it's a rare bird. oswalt comes to mind. there have been good debuts certainly, but doc and roy stand out as they delivered from the get go.

[Glenneration X]

Originally posted by NorCalAtlFan:

i hear you. it's a rare bird. oswalt comes to mind. there have been good debuts certainly, but doc and roy stand out as they delivered from the get go. Kerry Wood also comes to mind since I posted.

[Gordon Gekko II]

Originally posted by NorCalAtlFan:

that's typical gekko logic. by his standard, there are no races left except the tigers/royals and phillies/mutts. the cubs are 2 back, so they might be out of in the central. wrong. sorry. no way they beat the mets and phillies. some team will beat them for the wildcard as well. chipper will likely still miss a good chunk of games. OF is in shambles. MIGHT be a .500 team at the end of the season.

[Liquidhippo]

Originally posted by G-X:



The Braves are protecting their investment & making a business decision vs. putting in a rookie pitcher that history has shown will go through growing pains anyway and struggle to perform better than the player he'd be replacing anyway.



When was the last rookie pitcher to be a top ten fantasy pitcher....Doc Gooden? (oh the wasted talent)..... I'm sure there must be one since then, just can't think of one off the top of my head. Unless I'm misreading you, you've really switched gears here. Are we talking about upgrading Kawakami? Or being a top 10 pitcher? I don't think anyone is claiming it's a slam dunk he'll enter the Cy Young race this year, but to be a upgrade over Kawakami wouldn't take all that much...the rookie list of those pitchers who managed a sub 5.50 ERA in their first run in the majors is very, very long. There's no such thing as a sure thing and Hanson could easily struggle as well, but in my humble opinion, the decision makers in Atlanta KNOW that Hanson is a higher % play than Kenshin, who is a rookie himself, struggling mightily, with inferior stuff(compared to Hanson). One could argue that Kenshin is in greater need of time at AAA than Hanson.

[Glenneration X]

Originally posted by Liquidhippo:

quote:Originally posted by G-X:



The Braves are protecting their investment & making a business decision vs. putting in a rookie pitcher that history has shown will go through growing pains anyway and struggle to perform better than the player he'd be replacing anyway.



Unless I'm misreading you, you've really switched gears here. Are we talking about upgrading Kawakami? Or being a top 10 pitcher? I don't think anyone is claiming it's a slam dunk he'll enter the Cy Young race this year, but to be a upgrade over Kawakami wouldn't take all that much... [/QUOTE]I'm sure the Yankees thought it wouldn't take much for Phil Hughes to be much of an upgrade over Wang, but has he been? They've both been crappy. Then again, Wang was pretty terrible.

[Liquidhippo]

Originally posted by G-X:

quote:Originally posted by Liquidhippo:

quote:Originally posted by G-X:



The Braves are protecting their investment & making a business decision vs. putting in a rookie pitcher that history has shown will go through growing pains anyway and struggle to perform better than the player he'd be replacing anyway.



Unless I'm misreading you, you've really switched gears here. Are we talking about upgrading Kawakami? Or being a top 10 pitcher? I don't think anyone is claiming it's a slam dunk he'll enter the Cy Young race this year, but to be a upgrade over Kawakami wouldn't take all that much... [/QUOTE]I'm sure the Yankees thought it wouldn't take much for Phil Hughes to be much of an upgrade over Wang, but has he been? They've both been crappy. Then again, Wang was pretty terrible. [/QUOTE]The Yankees were correct that it wouldn't take much. Hughes just crapped the bed, which can and will happen with both veterans and rookies. At least they made the right move and went with someone who reasonably might have success, instead of sticking with someone who had a 99% chance of sucking. Wang was as close to a guaranteed loss as you can get at that point in time. He didn't have command of his pitches. He didn't have the sharp downward break on his sinker. He left pitch after pitch up in the zone giving cookie after cookie to the hitters to tee off on. Hughes earned the call up, but as I said previously, there's no such thing as a sure thing. But you have to go with the % play.



If a 38/9 K/BB ratio, showing great command of plus pitches is not enough to earn a call up, I'm not sure that we'd ever see any promotions.



2008 the Giants tried to upgrade their rotation with Lincecum. Yes, he might have struggled, but they took the chance(you take a chance either way), went with the % play in Lincy. Josh Johsnon and Justin Verlander worked out ok in '06. Jurrjens, Litsch, Galaragga.... the list goes on.



[ May 19, 2009, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Liquidhippo ]

[Edwards Kings]

With Kawakami, the Braves are going to give him more than seven weeks in the bigs to match the success he had in Japan or at least show he is capable of holding up the back end of the rotation. Part of it is the investment, but the other part of it is he has a history of success that should translate pretty well to MLB. The Braves would be foolish to pull the plug so soon. Besides, pitching has not really been the Braves trouble as much as hitting and having the worst offensive OF in baseball.



How much does it hurt the Braves to showcase Medlen and/or Morton as trade bait while Hanson mowes them down on the farm?

[Liquidhippo]

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

With Kawakami, the Braves are going to give him more than seven weeks in the bigs to match the success he had in Japan or at least show he is capable of holding up the back end of the rotation. Part of it is the investment, but the other part of it is he has a history of success that should translate pretty well to MLB. The Braves would be foolish to pull the plug so soon. Besides, pitching has not really been the Braves trouble as much as hitting and having the worst offensive OF in baseball.



How much does it hurt the Braves to showcase Medlen and/or Morton as trade bait while Hanson mowes them down on the farm? I think what it must boil down to is that we have have completely different assessments of Kawakami and Hanson. You're a lot higher on Kenshin than I am, and I'm a lot higher on Hanson than you are. When I see Kenshin, I see a rookie with no track record of success at the Major league level, and his stuff, in my humble opinion, is noticeably inferior to Hanson's. Bump him to #5, or let him work out the kinks in the Minors, or in long relief. If he's as good as you say, he'll earn his spot back with excellent performance. I wouldn't give him an entitlement simply because he was handed a large check. When looking at the available/potential starting pitchers on the roster, I see Lowe, Vazquez, and Jurrjens as the only 3 who are firmly entrenched in the rotation. After that, it should go to whoever earns it; to whoever has the best stuff and has demonstrated that they know how to use that stuff. The pitcher that projects to have the greatest likelihood of success should be given the most responsibility...that is, if winning right now is your top priority. Perhaps it's not. Perhaps showcasing someone for a trade is more important, or perhaps trying to prove you didn't make a mistake is more important. But if you're looking for the best to fill out the end of the rotation and trying to give the team the best chance to win, among the rest to choose from on the Braves roster, that pitcher is Hanson, and its not even close, in my opinion. Don't pull the plug on any of the others. Give them roles as #5, in the bullpen, or in the minors, and make them prove that they belong.



[ May 20, 2009, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Liquidhippo ]

[huskyfan88]

It's only May 20th. When the Braves are sure he's ready, they'll create a spot for him. May not be much longer. Patience.

[sportsbettingman]

I know it's only one inning and 2 hits and an earned run...let's see if the fist game jitters calm down or if he becomes Mr. "Fair to Medlen" or "Those Medlen teenagers" and is simply keeping a seat warm for Mr. Hanson in June!

[sportsbettingman]

Gekko, my man...



I believe you don't watch baseball or football when you say you do not. I'm glad. You'd be an even better fantasy player if you watched. So much to see that just does not transfer to the stat sheet.



MLB internet package is cheap, and archived to watch at your leisure.



Do us all a favor and do not buy it.



Medlen was not horrible...but he was CLEARLY rattled. Sweating like crazy and nervously pushing the pace. His mind had more to do with his failure tonight than his body. He looked like a deer in the headlights...even though it was 1-0 in the 4th. Being able to see body language is a bridge the stats-only guys will never cross with stats.



I guess that's why good scouts are so coveted and numbers crunchers are a dime a dozen.



edited to add...



Helton's grand slam should have and would have been caught on that short wall by many right fielders...miss-played by Fancour and bounced off the yellow line and over. Now THAT'S Lucky!



[ May 21, 2009, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

[Gordon Gekko II]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:





I guess that's why good scouts are so coveted and numbers crunchers are a dime a dozen. if my job was to help a major league team, i'd watch games and crunch numbers.



btw, i don't agree with your assessment. good scouts are good. good number crunchers are good.



i don't give a **** if medlen looks nervous. i know it's his first start and that's to be expected. i don't need to watch it to know that. :rolleyes:



i see the numbers and i see he got CRUSHED AGAINST THE ROCKIES (ON THE ROAD). the rockies suck on the road. it might by tommy time.

[NorCalAtlFan]

Tom, 6 ip 1 hit 1 walk 0 runs 9 k's today

[sportsbettingman]

Originally posted by NorCalAtlFan:

Tom, 6 ip 1 hit 1 walk 0 runs 9 k's today Smoltzie looked solid as well...don't count me out for the party just yet!!!

[Gordon Gekko II]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by NorCalAtlFan:

Tom, 6 ip 1 hit 1 walk 0 runs 9 k's today Smoltzie looked solid as well...don't count me out for the party just yet!!! [/QUOTE]u may need hanson to play MI