"You can have my blood, my hair, my urine, my stool". Raul Ibanez said this in reference to a blog suggesting that he may be getting some hits hypodermically.
A few thoughts-
First thought, me thinks he doth protest too much. Hopefully when saying it, he wasn't pointing his finger ala Rafael Palmeiro.
By the way, these players that say they will take a drug test to prove they are free from drugs are blowing smoke. The MLBPA prevents any player from taking drug tests outside of league mandated tests.
Raul, C'mon man, you're in Philly, its going to get alot tougher than this. Wait till you stop hitting for awhile.
You're worried about what a blogger says?
This paints the picture in my mind of Joe Blanton printing off his thread and happily showing teammates and management what Gekko said about him.
What's sad is that Ibanez, if clean, can only blame fellow baseball players that juiced. Anyone that soars over past seasonal stats will come under scrutiny.
The word stool...reminds me of a quick joke, pm me if you want to see it. I doubt Greg would like it on the Boards.
How much would Ibanez hair, blood, urine, and stool bring on E-Bay?
Moises Alou may be a buyer of one of them.
Raul in english is Ralph...Ralph Ibanez
Hey, wait a minute, what hair?
[ June 10, 2009, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]
Raul Ibanez
Raul Ibanez
On my tombstone-
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Raul Ibanez
Johnny Damon is on juice too!
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
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Scott Boras
- Posts: 422
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:00 pm
Raul Ibanez
Yeah, there are so many problems with this. As Doughy said, he can't even take a test under the player agreement. Even if he did take a test, there's no guarantee that whatever he could potentially be using would be detectable.
If he really wanted to convince his innocence, he'd just take a few tests himself and make the results available to the media. Doing this on his own, and defying the MLBPA would make a pretty appealing case as far as I'm concerned. An act like that, and only an act like that would convince me that the player has nothing to hide.
I have no beef with Ibanez. By many accounts he's a decent guy and until this season, an under-rated player. That said, on pace (sorry, doughy)to nearly double your highest single season home run mark at 37 years old raises some red flags.
No, I am not the blogger.
If he really wanted to convince his innocence, he'd just take a few tests himself and make the results available to the media. Doing this on his own, and defying the MLBPA would make a pretty appealing case as far as I'm concerned. An act like that, and only an act like that would convince me that the player has nothing to hide.
I have no beef with Ibanez. By many accounts he's a decent guy and until this season, an under-rated player. That said, on pace (sorry, doughy)to nearly double your highest single season home run mark at 37 years old raises some red flags.
No, I am not the blogger.
Raul Ibanez
Why is the variable for success immediately steroids? If he was still in Seattle with no protection on a last place team (more or less his career)and then started popping homers at 150% of his career clip...then I would raise flags.
However, he's moved to Philadelphia, with protection up & down the lineup, on a first place team. Teams HAVE to pitch to him & if you watched him in Seattle, you see he hits doubles to all fields. Simply enough, in that tiny ball park in Philly, those doubles (minus the deep gaps and dense Seattle air) are now simply carrying out of the ballpark.
I for one am ready to just put this steroid era in the past (and have been for quite some time). Simply for the fact that players from a generation or two ago (i.e. Gaylord Perry) essentially brag how they doctored baseballs and manipulated the game...during the course of the actual game (and please save the argument it took some fortitude to cheat in plain site, cheating is cheating). I'm not a steroids apologist, but the steroids/HGH bandwagon is certainly one that can roll on w/o me. Cheating, for what it's worth, has always been embedded in the game, it's just that technology has advanced it into different forms...so let's move on, old news...just my opinion.
However, he's moved to Philadelphia, with protection up & down the lineup, on a first place team. Teams HAVE to pitch to him & if you watched him in Seattle, you see he hits doubles to all fields. Simply enough, in that tiny ball park in Philly, those doubles (minus the deep gaps and dense Seattle air) are now simply carrying out of the ballpark.
I for one am ready to just put this steroid era in the past (and have been for quite some time). Simply for the fact that players from a generation or two ago (i.e. Gaylord Perry) essentially brag how they doctored baseballs and manipulated the game...during the course of the actual game (and please save the argument it took some fortitude to cheat in plain site, cheating is cheating). I'm not a steroids apologist, but the steroids/HGH bandwagon is certainly one that can roll on w/o me. Cheating, for what it's worth, has always been embedded in the game, it's just that technology has advanced it into different forms...so let's move on, old news...just my opinion.
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Scott Boras
- Posts: 422
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:00 pm
Raul Ibanez
Originally posted by Jpappas27:
Why is the variable for success immediately steroids? If he was still in Seattle with no protection on a last place team (more or less his career)and then started popping homers at 150% of his career clip...then I would raise flags.
However, he's moved to Philadelphia, with protection up & down the lineup, on a first place team. Teams HAVE to pitch to him & if you watched him in Seattle, you see he hits doubles to all fields. Simply enough, in that tiny ball park in Philly, those doubles (minus the deep gaps and dense Seattle air) are now simply carrying out of the ballpark.
I for one am ready to just put this steroid era in the past (and have been for quite some time). Simply for the fact that players from a generation or two ago (i.e. Gaylord Perry) essentially brag how they doctored baseballs and manipulated the game...during the course of the actual game (and please save the argument it took some fortitude to cheat in plain site, cheating is cheating). I'm not a steroids apologist, but the steroids/HGH bandwagon is certainly one that can roll on w/o me. Cheating, for what it's worth, has always been embedded in the game, it's just that technology has advanced it into different forms...so let's move on, old news...just my opinion. Certainly possible and I hope decent guys like Ibanez ARE clean. That said, if he has 55+ home runs at season's end, will you not even be a little bit curious? That would be eerily similar to Luis Gonzalez's 2001.
Doughboys' post wasn't so much the PED bandwagon, but more about the empty challenge Ibanez issued knowing full well that even if taken up, he cannot fulfill his end. It appears very similar to Palmeiro's fiasco. Maybe steroids aren't the issue so much as the MLBPA is?
Being ready to move on and having legitimate reason to move on are two entirely different things. I'm as ready as you are to move on, but I'm not sure that MLB is with us.
Why is the variable for success immediately steroids? If he was still in Seattle with no protection on a last place team (more or less his career)and then started popping homers at 150% of his career clip...then I would raise flags.
However, he's moved to Philadelphia, with protection up & down the lineup, on a first place team. Teams HAVE to pitch to him & if you watched him in Seattle, you see he hits doubles to all fields. Simply enough, in that tiny ball park in Philly, those doubles (minus the deep gaps and dense Seattle air) are now simply carrying out of the ballpark.
I for one am ready to just put this steroid era in the past (and have been for quite some time). Simply for the fact that players from a generation or two ago (i.e. Gaylord Perry) essentially brag how they doctored baseballs and manipulated the game...during the course of the actual game (and please save the argument it took some fortitude to cheat in plain site, cheating is cheating). I'm not a steroids apologist, but the steroids/HGH bandwagon is certainly one that can roll on w/o me. Cheating, for what it's worth, has always been embedded in the game, it's just that technology has advanced it into different forms...so let's move on, old news...just my opinion. Certainly possible and I hope decent guys like Ibanez ARE clean. That said, if he has 55+ home runs at season's end, will you not even be a little bit curious? That would be eerily similar to Luis Gonzalez's 2001.
Doughboys' post wasn't so much the PED bandwagon, but more about the empty challenge Ibanez issued knowing full well that even if taken up, he cannot fulfill his end. It appears very similar to Palmeiro's fiasco. Maybe steroids aren't the issue so much as the MLBPA is?
Being ready to move on and having legitimate reason to move on are two entirely different things. I'm as ready as you are to move on, but I'm not sure that MLB is with us.
Raul Ibanez
Certainly possible and I hope decent guys like Ibanez ARE clean. That said, if he has 55+ home runs at season's end, will you not even be a little bit curious? That would be eerily similar to Luis Gonzalez's 2001.
Doughboys' post wasn't so much the PED bandwagon, but more about the empty challenge Ibanez issued knowing full well that even if taken up, he cannot fulfill his end. It appears very similar to Palmeiro's fiasco. Maybe steroids aren't the issue so much as the MLBPA is?
Being ready to move on and having legitimate reason to move on are two entirely different things. I'm as ready as you are to move on, but I'm not sure that MLB is with us.
___________________________________________
My vent was more directed towards the blogger than anyone on this thread...I agree that 55 HR raises eyebrows, but there are plenty of justifications outside of steroids in this case; and I'd just like to see the baseball fan base & media not immediately and solely jump to the steroid conclusion and stating all other variables as after thoughts...or not at all.
The honus lies with Bud Selig & him turning a blind eye to restore the game after the strike (McGwire & Sosa era). I believe John Rocker when he publicly stated that he told Selig directly that he took steroids in the early 2000's. If we've learned nothing else, at least know to listen to those who have nothing to lose...Canseco & Rocker.
The only reason I'd ever like to re-visit the 'steroid era' would be for some retro-active punishment for Selig..b/c he was the major facilitator of the era by his non-actions.
With that said, I'm a baseball fan for life and there's little that I can even imagine that would casue that to change...but seeing Selig go away would be icing on the cake.
Doughboys' post wasn't so much the PED bandwagon, but more about the empty challenge Ibanez issued knowing full well that even if taken up, he cannot fulfill his end. It appears very similar to Palmeiro's fiasco. Maybe steroids aren't the issue so much as the MLBPA is?
Being ready to move on and having legitimate reason to move on are two entirely different things. I'm as ready as you are to move on, but I'm not sure that MLB is with us.
___________________________________________
My vent was more directed towards the blogger than anyone on this thread...I agree that 55 HR raises eyebrows, but there are plenty of justifications outside of steroids in this case; and I'd just like to see the baseball fan base & media not immediately and solely jump to the steroid conclusion and stating all other variables as after thoughts...or not at all.
The honus lies with Bud Selig & him turning a blind eye to restore the game after the strike (McGwire & Sosa era). I believe John Rocker when he publicly stated that he told Selig directly that he took steroids in the early 2000's. If we've learned nothing else, at least know to listen to those who have nothing to lose...Canseco & Rocker.
The only reason I'd ever like to re-visit the 'steroid era' would be for some retro-active punishment for Selig..b/c he was the major facilitator of the era by his non-actions.
With that said, I'm a baseball fan for life and there's little that I can even imagine that would casue that to change...but seeing Selig go away would be icing on the cake.
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Scott Boras
- Posts: 422
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:00 pm
Raul Ibanez
Originally posted by Jpappas27:
Certainly possible and I hope decent guys like Ibanez ARE clean. That said, if he has 55+ home runs at season's end, will you not even be a little bit curious? That would be eerily similar to Luis Gonzalez's 2001.
Doughboys' post wasn't so much the PED bandwagon, but more about the empty challenge Ibanez issued knowing full well that even if taken up, he cannot fulfill his end. It appears very similar to Palmeiro's fiasco. Maybe steroids aren't the issue so much as the MLBPA is?
Being ready to move on and having legitimate reason to move on are two entirely different things. I'm as ready as you are to move on, but I'm not sure that MLB is with us.
___________________________________________
My vent was more directed towards the blogger than anyone on this thread...I agree that 55 HR raises eyebrows, but there are plenty of justifications outside of steroids in this case; and I'd just like to see the baseball fan base & media not immediately and solely jump to the steroid conclusion and stating all other variables as after thoughts...or not at all.
The honus lies with Bud Selig & him turning a blind eye to restore the game after the strike (McGwire & Sosa era). I believe John Rocker when he publicly stated that he told Selig directly that he took steroids in the early 2000's. If we've learned nothing else, at least know to listen to those who have nothing to lose...Canseco & Rocker.
The only reason I'd ever like to re-visit the 'steroid era' would be for some retro-active punishment for Selig..b/c he was the major facilitator of the era by his non-actions.
With that said, I'm a baseball fan for life and there's little that I can even imagine that would casue that to change...but seeing Selig go away would be icing on the cake. I'm with you, brother! Truer words were never spoken!
Certainly possible and I hope decent guys like Ibanez ARE clean. That said, if he has 55+ home runs at season's end, will you not even be a little bit curious? That would be eerily similar to Luis Gonzalez's 2001.
Doughboys' post wasn't so much the PED bandwagon, but more about the empty challenge Ibanez issued knowing full well that even if taken up, he cannot fulfill his end. It appears very similar to Palmeiro's fiasco. Maybe steroids aren't the issue so much as the MLBPA is?
Being ready to move on and having legitimate reason to move on are two entirely different things. I'm as ready as you are to move on, but I'm not sure that MLB is with us.
___________________________________________
My vent was more directed towards the blogger than anyone on this thread...I agree that 55 HR raises eyebrows, but there are plenty of justifications outside of steroids in this case; and I'd just like to see the baseball fan base & media not immediately and solely jump to the steroid conclusion and stating all other variables as after thoughts...or not at all.
The honus lies with Bud Selig & him turning a blind eye to restore the game after the strike (McGwire & Sosa era). I believe John Rocker when he publicly stated that he told Selig directly that he took steroids in the early 2000's. If we've learned nothing else, at least know to listen to those who have nothing to lose...Canseco & Rocker.
The only reason I'd ever like to re-visit the 'steroid era' would be for some retro-active punishment for Selig..b/c he was the major facilitator of the era by his non-actions.
With that said, I'm a baseball fan for life and there's little that I can even imagine that would casue that to change...but seeing Selig go away would be icing on the cake. I'm with you, brother! Truer words were never spoken!
Raul Ibanez
didn't the blogger say that ibanez put himself in suspicion of juicing because of his power output this year versus his career numbers. he didn't admit he was doing anything wrong, he just showed a comparison of this year versus his career. what has he had, 22 in one year in the past. i'm very suspicious about him too. remember, roger clemens and barry bonds are in denial too.
doesn't anybody in there right mind believe this "COULD" be true.
you can't trust any of these players anymore. they are all under suspicion because they and their union did it to themselves and the league and owners didn't care.
JMO
bill
doesn't anybody in there right mind believe this "COULD" be true.
you can't trust any of these players anymore. they are all under suspicion because they and their union did it to themselves and the league and owners didn't care.
JMO
bill
bill cleavenger
BIG BLUE NATION
"we don't rebuild, we reload"
BIG BLUE NATION
"we don't rebuild, we reload"
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BROOKLYN BOBBY
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:00 pm
Raul Ibanez
raul...the nerve of some people...to even question for 1 second that you may be on the juice....a latino power hitter juicing???? ridiculous....just a quick look at the all time homer list....arod...sammy.....raffy....juan gone....manny....canseco...whoops....never mind
Raul Ibanez
I want to start a no rules baseball league where all the guys are 250lb juice heads. Our league will do no drug testing and if we do drug test you, you must test positive for roids or your fined.
This would be the greatest league balls flying 500ft every night. Pitchers throwing 100 mph. $5 drafts, $2 dogs, and hot chicks in bikini's for ball girls. This is entertainment and that is my dream!!!
Whos coming with me???
This would be the greatest league balls flying 500ft every night. Pitchers throwing 100 mph. $5 drafts, $2 dogs, and hot chicks in bikini's for ball girls. This is entertainment and that is my dream!!!
Whos coming with me???
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
Raul Ibanez
I'm with you, Dirt Dogs ...
The only reason I even follow baseball is because I got fixated on a guy -- Jose Canseco -- just about 20 years ago now ... I couldn't believe the power, the speed, the combination. Yes, he's a jackass, no doubt. But next time you're at the Ballpark in Oakland or what used to be the Skydome in Toronto, go to Guest Services and make them tell you the exact seat where the longest home runs were hit. Then go with your beer and sit there for an inning or two.
And ask yourself ... do I miss those types of shots, or not?
The whole thing of roids in baseball, and sports really, is so hypocritical when cast through a wider lens. Consider football. Does anyone really believe that 80% or more of the NFL is not on roids? How the NFL constantly escapes scrutiny in this regard is beyond me. Look, they just don't make humans that big and strong (not the finesee players like WR's -- I'm talking both sides of the line, and the linebackers, some DB's etc.). Or consider entertainment. We think nothing of our favorite stars getting a nip or tuck or "addition" for a movie or concert tour.
Yes, it was a bit of farce watching the steriod era. 73 HR's for Bonds. Brady Anderson hitting 50. It went on and on. Personally, I had no problem with it all. Loved it. The athletes were making informed decisions (yes, yes, they were) about what they were doing, and they were being VERY well compensated for those decisions.
And the "product" on the field? It was what got me interested in baseball in the first place.
This is another "wasted keystrokes" entry because "steriods and supplemants" are bad, so society says. So the current path Bud Selig and Congress have taken us on is where we're headed long term...
As for me, next time I go to a game, I'll get my beer and go to the 5th deck at, for example, what used to be Skydome and think fondly of the monster shots and speed freaks of yesterday. And frankly, think that was a better brand of baseball than we have today. Just my 2 cents.
The only reason I even follow baseball is because I got fixated on a guy -- Jose Canseco -- just about 20 years ago now ... I couldn't believe the power, the speed, the combination. Yes, he's a jackass, no doubt. But next time you're at the Ballpark in Oakland or what used to be the Skydome in Toronto, go to Guest Services and make them tell you the exact seat where the longest home runs were hit. Then go with your beer and sit there for an inning or two.
And ask yourself ... do I miss those types of shots, or not?
The whole thing of roids in baseball, and sports really, is so hypocritical when cast through a wider lens. Consider football. Does anyone really believe that 80% or more of the NFL is not on roids? How the NFL constantly escapes scrutiny in this regard is beyond me. Look, they just don't make humans that big and strong (not the finesee players like WR's -- I'm talking both sides of the line, and the linebackers, some DB's etc.). Or consider entertainment. We think nothing of our favorite stars getting a nip or tuck or "addition" for a movie or concert tour.
Yes, it was a bit of farce watching the steriod era. 73 HR's for Bonds. Brady Anderson hitting 50. It went on and on. Personally, I had no problem with it all. Loved it. The athletes were making informed decisions (yes, yes, they were) about what they were doing, and they were being VERY well compensated for those decisions.
And the "product" on the field? It was what got me interested in baseball in the first place.
This is another "wasted keystrokes" entry because "steriods and supplemants" are bad, so society says. So the current path Bud Selig and Congress have taken us on is where we're headed long term...
As for me, next time I go to a game, I'll get my beer and go to the 5th deck at, for example, what used to be Skydome and think fondly of the monster shots and speed freaks of yesterday. And frankly, think that was a better brand of baseball than we have today. Just my 2 cents.
"Past Peformance Does Not Guarantee Future Returns"
Raul Ibanez
Originally posted by TTBoy:
I'm with you, Dirt Dogs ...
The only reason I even follow baseball is because I got fixated on a guy -- Jose Canseco -- just about 20 years ago now ... I couldn't believe the power, the speed, the combination. Yes, he's a jackass, no doubt. But next time you're at the Ballpark in Oakland or what used to be the Skydome in Toronto, go to Guest Services and make them tell you the exact seat where the longest home runs were hit. Then go with your beer and sit there for an inning or two.
And ask yourself ... do I miss those types of shots, or not?
The whole thing of roids in baseball, and sports really, is so hypocritical when cast through a wider lens. Consider football. Does anyone really believe that 80% or more of the NFL is not on roids? How the NFL constantly escapes scrutiny in this regard is beyond me. Look, they just don't make humans that big and strong (not the finesee players like WR's -- I'm talking both sides of the line, and the linebackers, some DB's etc.). Or consider entertainment. We think nothing of our favorite stars getting a nip or tuck or "addition" for a movie or concert tour.
Yes, it was a bit of farce watching the steriod era. 73 HR's for Bonds. Brady Anderson hitting 50. It went on and on. Personally, I had no problem with it all. Loved it. The athletes were making informed decisions (yes, yes, they were) about what they were doing, and they were being VERY well compensated for those decisions.
And the "product" on the field? It was what got me interested in baseball in the first place.
This is another "wasted keystrokes" entry because "steriods and supplemants" are bad, so society says. So the current path Bud Selig and Congress have taken us on is where we're headed long term...
As for me, next time I go to a game, I'll get my beer and go to the 5th deck at, for example, what used to be Skydome and think fondly of the monster shots and speed freaks of yesterday. And frankly, think that was a better brand of baseball than we have today. Just my 2 cents. A better brand of baseball????
SERIOUSLY???
I can understand how someone who became indoctinated into baseball during that "era" might make a statement like that and believe it's true - but as someone who luckily grew up in the 70's and 80's watching that brand of baseball knows it's not even close to being true.
I'm sure our resident baseball historian Dan "Doughboys" Kenyon could give his own thesis on the true glory days of baseball in the 50's and 60's.
I'm with you, Dirt Dogs ...
The only reason I even follow baseball is because I got fixated on a guy -- Jose Canseco -- just about 20 years ago now ... I couldn't believe the power, the speed, the combination. Yes, he's a jackass, no doubt. But next time you're at the Ballpark in Oakland or what used to be the Skydome in Toronto, go to Guest Services and make them tell you the exact seat where the longest home runs were hit. Then go with your beer and sit there for an inning or two.
And ask yourself ... do I miss those types of shots, or not?
The whole thing of roids in baseball, and sports really, is so hypocritical when cast through a wider lens. Consider football. Does anyone really believe that 80% or more of the NFL is not on roids? How the NFL constantly escapes scrutiny in this regard is beyond me. Look, they just don't make humans that big and strong (not the finesee players like WR's -- I'm talking both sides of the line, and the linebackers, some DB's etc.). Or consider entertainment. We think nothing of our favorite stars getting a nip or tuck or "addition" for a movie or concert tour.
Yes, it was a bit of farce watching the steriod era. 73 HR's for Bonds. Brady Anderson hitting 50. It went on and on. Personally, I had no problem with it all. Loved it. The athletes were making informed decisions (yes, yes, they were) about what they were doing, and they were being VERY well compensated for those decisions.
And the "product" on the field? It was what got me interested in baseball in the first place.
This is another "wasted keystrokes" entry because "steriods and supplemants" are bad, so society says. So the current path Bud Selig and Congress have taken us on is where we're headed long term...
As for me, next time I go to a game, I'll get my beer and go to the 5th deck at, for example, what used to be Skydome and think fondly of the monster shots and speed freaks of yesterday. And frankly, think that was a better brand of baseball than we have today. Just my 2 cents. A better brand of baseball????
SERIOUSLY???
I can understand how someone who became indoctinated into baseball during that "era" might make a statement like that and believe it's true - but as someone who luckily grew up in the 70's and 80's watching that brand of baseball knows it's not even close to being true.
I'm sure our resident baseball historian Dan "Doughboys" Kenyon could give his own thesis on the true glory days of baseball in the 50's and 60's.
Mastersball
“You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.” - Albert Einstein
“You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.” - Albert Einstein