JA, Pedro, and Jr.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:34 am

According to Ruben Amaro Jr, JA Happ is staying in the Phillies rotation even when/if Pedro is promoted from the minors.

Pedro received headlines for striking out 11 kids in AA earlier this week. A more insightful headline would have been that AA kids got four runs off Pedro, three earned. The number three hitter for Trenton hit his eighth homer of the year in 379 at bats off Pedro. Their cleanup hitter had all of five at bats at the AA level before going 0-4 that night. Is it just me, or does the media play up these starts a little much vs. mostly kids that will never see a big league bench. Contreras, Bonderman, Bailey, and Smoltz all got the same kind of hype.

Happ has been the Phils most consistent pitcher and it would have been a shame and a mistake to limit him to the bullpen because of his rookie status.

In baseball, Managers take the hit for losing on teams. Usually GM's stay behind the scenes, while Managers get too many accolades for winning or too many insults for losing. The Amaro-Manuel-Pedro-Happ case illustrates how Managers are becoming more like catchers who receive their signals from the bench. More and more, Managers are becoming limited to only game time management while personnel decisions, even starting rotation decisions, are ultimately made by GM's. Depending on the GM, this could be a good thing or a bad thing.

Just an fyi, have you ever wondered why baseball have managers, while other sports have coaches?

When professional baseball began, the managers were in charge of everything. Besides coaching;travel, hotels, and trades were all in the managers lists of duties. Players contracts were always determined by the owner. The first GM in baseball did not arrive until 1927.

[ August 07, 2009, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:56 am

I don't know. 11 K's and no walks are good signs. Maybe more to the point, they're not bad signs. If he gave up 11 walks and had no strikeouts, I'd say chances are he's done, even if he allowed no runs. This means he is intriguing in some way and someone to watch and see if he can repeat wit any sort of consistency.

Maybe that's another way of saying that, yeah, they're kids but they're not Little League kids; they're professional players. Anyone who can consistently K 17 per 9 in Double-A without walking anyone is worth looking at.

As an aside, I do know what you mean about over-reporting the results of one start and kind of missing the point. My favorite is from your favorite boys to kick over at Rotowire: the Homer Bailey start of the month. After one start in which Bailey K's 8 and allows no runs, they happily announce his reemergence as a prospect. Then you look at his box score and see he walked 5. Like, they had no idea what his problem had been?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:11 am

Pedro striking out 11 vs AA kids is the equivalent of you "getting lucky" at a nursing home, Brian.

Not that you would want to get lucky at a nursing home, but, ah, you know what I mean...

[ August 07, 2009, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:13 am

Um, Q, no pictures of the above post, please.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:20 am

Brian "scoring" at the nursing home. When he yells BINGO ! he ummm really means it...

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:26 am

You cannot leave openings like that one Doughy and not expect the sicker amoung us to walk through....

[ August 07, 2009, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Edwards Kings ]

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:31 am

Thanks Q. That's the only kind of luck I'd want at a nursing home.

Anyway, let's say he has three more starts at Double-A with similar K and walk rates (hypothetically). Do you think that is meaningful in any sort of way?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:19 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

Thanks Q. That's the only kind of luck I'd want at a nursing home.

Anyway, let's say he has three more starts at Double-A with similar K and walk rates (hypothetically). Do you think that is meaningful in any sort of way? BINGO!!

NO.

Other than his control being where it should be, no. These guys couldn't hit 8th for the Nationals.

It's like a 12 year old pitching against nine year olds, getting 11 k's AND getting headlines in the paper the next day to boot. Silliness, really.

[ August 07, 2009, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:36 am

Future Headlines for Philadelphia papers:

When Happ pitches well-

HAPPy Days Are Here Again!

Glass Happ Full!

Happ Happening!

JA-Just Amazing

Happ Zapps Nats

---------------

When he doesen't-

Happhazard Happ!

Glass Happ Empty!

Happ Throws Craps!

Happ Rapped by Nats!

Happless!

JA- Just Awful!

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:49 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

Thanks Q. That's the only kind of luck I'd want at a nursing home.

Anyway, let's say he has three more starts at Double-A with similar K and walk rates (hypothetically). Do you think that is meaningful in any sort of way? BINGO!!

NO.

Other than his control being where it should be, no. These guys couldn't hit 8th for the Nationals.

It's like a 12 year old pitching against nine year olds, getting 11 k's AND getting headlines in the paper the next day to boot. Silliness, really. [/QUOTE]Maybe they couldn't hit 8th for the Nats, but by virtue of your comment you get that they do have a specific talent level. Major leaguers also have a specific talent level. The 11 K's don't equal 11 in the majors but they equal SOMEthing. Usually we project K levels of prospects rather successfully using translations. I don't know that Pedro's start tells us anything other than that he could be someone to keep an eye on, but minor league numbers aren't meaningless in a larger sample.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:29 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Future Headlines for Philadelphia papers:

When Happ pitches well-

HAPPy Days Are Here Again!

Glass Happ Full!

Happ Happening!

JA-Just Amazing

Happ Zapps Nats

---------------

When he doesen't-

Happhazard Happ!

Glass Happ Empty!

Happ Throws Craps!

Happ Rapped by Nats!

Happless!

JA- Just Awful! Happ-Happ, Hooray!

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:42 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Future Headlines for Philadelphia papers:

good list dough but we're talking Philly here...

Happ #$&*!# sucks !

Happ's #$&*!# great !

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:05 pm

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

Thanks Q. That's the only kind of luck I'd want at a nursing home.

Anyway, let's say he has three more starts at Double-A with similar K and walk rates (hypothetically). Do you think that is meaningful in any sort of way? BINGO!!

NO.

Other than his control being where it should be, no. These guys couldn't hit 8th for the Nationals.

It's like a 12 year old pitching against nine year olds, getting 11 k's AND getting headlines in the paper the next day to boot. Silliness, really. [/QUOTE]Maybe they couldn't hit 8th for the Nats, but by virtue of your comment you get that they do have a specific talent level. Major leaguers also have a specific talent level. The 11 K's don't equal 11 in the majors but they equal SOMEthing. Usually we project K levels of prospects rather successfully using translations. I don't know that Pedro's start tells us anything other than that he could be someone to keep an eye on, but minor league numbers aren't meaningless in a larger sample. [/QUOTE]To me, it meant he had control. Period.

The rest is noise.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:09 pm

Originally posted by Quahogs:

Brian "scoring" at the nursing home. When he yells BINGO ! he ummm really means it... Hey Captain Hook you look young in that picture. Yellow looks good on you.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:47 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Happ-Happ, Hooray!

[/QUOTE]Any one else think lance shouts this just about every night?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:04 pm

Originally posted by JohnZ:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Happ-Happ, Hooray!

[/QUOTE]Any one else think lance shouts this just about every night? [/QUOTE]Here Here my good man...get this John lad a drink!

[ August 08, 2009, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]