2010 NFBC Draft Dates and Locations Revealed

rkulaski · Post by **rkulaski** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:53 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Quack & Willy:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

[qb] [QUOTE]Greg, if you had made this one weekend being the 27th, I think the reaction would have been fine. So people just have to be concerned with changing travel arrangements, rather than now dealing with issues regarding the strategy of selecting weeks to draft. [/QUOTE]I'm looking for that feedback. Anyone agree with Mike or is this concept being overblown? [/QUOTE]I'm on page 7 now. I agree with Mike. Exactly!

huskyfan88 · Post by **huskyfan88** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:01 pm

Main lesson from this thread: Don't get into a battle of words with professional writers if you're not one yourself. It's like trying to win a race against Richard Petty while driving a Yugo.

Since I'm only a satellite player, much of this discussion isn't relevant to my concerns. One thing, though. I will likely enter again next year as the competition in any NFBC league is better than you will find anywhere else. However, if it feels like I'm playing Fanball instead of NFBC, I'd have to reconsider.

Ryan C · Post by **Ryan C** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:08 pm

24 pages...head hurting...eyes sore...adjfjertopjgvfgf...sorry that was my head hitting the keyboard.

Mr Houston...please don't give us Ryan's a bad name.

Welcome to Hell...otherwise know as the Message Boards...you have officially been baptized.

The first time I ever posted on this board I think I got bitched out by many of the best guys on here because I brought up a player's name prior to that player being added to the FAAB list.

I trust Greg and Tom when they say we are in good hands - Love the Auction Championship - I think I may play that instead of the Main this year truth be told.

I'm not a Vegas player, so I am not angling for a VIP pass - but hopefully you can make sure Tom has ample funds for the NYC after draft beer pong outing.

Carry on the rest of you maniacs - I'm going to go soak my head in ice water and dream about one day being able to afford to spend 10K on a fantasy baseball league.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:29 am

Originally posted by billywaz:

quote:Can we assume from this post that the FIRST weekend will be somewhere OTHER than New York City (as it says East Coast)? [/QUOTE]Yes, but we don't have a location finalized yet. We're working on several options now.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:33 am

Originally posted by huskyfan88:

Main lesson from this thread: Don't get into a battle of words with professional writers if you're not one yourself. It's like trying to win a race against Richard Petty while driving a Yugo.

Since I'm only a satellite player, much of this discussion isn't relevant to my concerns. One thing, though. I will likely enter again next year as the competition in any NFBC league is better than you will find anywhere else. However, if it feels like I'm playing Fanball instead of NFBC, I'd have to reconsider. Sounds good and the satellite league payouts are the same in 2010 as they have been in the past. Good luck and let me know when it doesn't feel like you're playing NFBC.

Captain Crunch · Post by **Captain Crunch** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:08 am

Originally posted by ToddZ:

Upon further review...

..............

By means of a brief explanation, these are salary cap contests using the whole pool of players, the better players carrying a higher salary with the cap set as such that you have to fill in your roster with a big bunch of lesser priced players to stay within the cap. Here, if you have the money and time, it is very possible to construct a series of rosters that will ultimately give one a better chance of winning. The easiest way to demonstrate this is using the NBA playoffs from the Bulls hey-day. CDM ran a playoff contest and I was in a division that had 4 teams owned by the same guy. All the teams had all the Bulls. One had the rest Rockets, another Jazz, another Suns and another Trailblazers. The idea being one will consist of both teams in the finals and have an outstanding chance of winning that league and faring high in the overall. As a grad student at the time, I could only afford one squad and felt I was at a disadvantage. And even though it would be infinitely more difficult to do this with the salary cap baseball league, a bad taste was left in my mouth and I swore off contests where you could buy multiple teams. Though, as a means of supporting Charlie Wiegert and CDM in their battle against MLBAM, I did purchase a baseball team for those seasons.

..........

Have you ever calculated the number of possible rosters in one of these games - such as the Diamond Challenge for example? The number is beyond astronomical, at least ~2x10^43 ... lots of n!/(p!*(n-p)!)'s. Even if you just consider a reasonable subset of available players (ie. exclude the riff-raff) it's ~3x10^22.

The number of teams that you would have to contruct to improve your chances of winning to any reasonable level of significance is also beyond astronomical, and at $400 to $500 each, is unlikely - unless you win big at nfbc maybe :-þ

It's a different game and different format, but still requires skill and some subtle nuances of play. It's beyond imagining that anyone is 'gaming' the DC or other regular season game.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:21 am

Originally posted by Captain Crunch:

quote:Originally posted by ToddZ:

Upon further review...

..............

By means of a brief explanation, these are salary cap contests using the whole pool of players, the better players carrying a higher salary with the cap set as such that you have to fill in your roster with a big bunch of lesser priced players to stay within the cap. Here, if you have the money and time, it is very possible to construct a series of rosters that will ultimately give one a better chance of winning. The easiest way to demonstrate this is using the NBA playoffs from the Bulls hey-day. CDM ran a playoff contest and I was in a division that had 4 teams owned by the same guy. All the teams had all the Bulls. One had the rest Rockets, another Jazz, another Suns and another Trailblazers. The idea being one will consist of both teams in the finals and have an outstanding chance of winning that league and faring high in the overall. As a grad student at the time, I could only afford one squad and felt I was at a disadvantage. And even though it would be infinitely more difficult to do this with the salary cap baseball league, a bad taste was left in my mouth and I swore off contests where you could buy multiple teams. Though, as a means of supporting Charlie Wiegert and CDM in their battle against MLBAM, I did purchase a baseball team for those seasons.

..........

Have you ever calculated the number of possible rosters in one of these games - such as the Diamond Challenge for example? The number is beyond astronomical, at least ~2x10^43 ... lots of n!/(p!*(n-p)!)'s. Even if you just consider a reasonable subset of available players (ie. exclude the riff-raff) it's ~3x10^22.

The number of teams that you would have to contruct to improve your chances of winning to any reasonable level of significance is also beyond astronomical, and at $400 to $500 each, is unlikely - unless you win big at nfbc maybe :-þ

It's a different game and different format, but still requires skill and some subtle nuances of play. It's beyond imagining that anyone is 'gaming' the DC or other regular season game. [/QUOTE]Math teacher maybe?

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:22 am

Originally posted by Captain Crunch:

It's beyond imagining that anyone is 'gaming' the DC or other regular season game. Not to hijack this thread, but back in the day, I saw examples of teams - SOME IN THE SAME CDM DIVISION -- that were owned by the same person and had a core of players the same, but differed on some high-risk, high-reward types.

Granted, the core has to come through, but it is by no means beyond imaginable that one of a series of similarly constructed teams has the periphery players excel.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:30 am

Originally posted by rkulaski:

ONLINE Championships: YEs, I played in 2009 but I still didn't like the idea of the 3 pack because I knew I could only afford 1 team and felt at a disadvantage to win the grand prize because I only had 1 chance to other people's 3 chances. I didn't like it but I still played.

Don't you have a larger bankroll for fantasy baseball this year?

[ October 11, 2009, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]

Cotton1 · Post by **Cotton1** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:41 am

The question raised repeatedly on the many, many pages of this thread is related to the rationale for using two dates for the main event draft. when i initially signed up for the NFBC, one of their main selling points was the security related to having all teams draft from multiple locations at one time. now, that doesn't appear to be so important. the bottom line is, if we are spreading this out over two weeks to honor the financial commitment to the flamingo versus using one venue on the 27th, why dont we take a vote? if the vote is let's use one date(ostensibly the 27th), then tell us what the damage is for the flamingo commitment, divide it by 390 or 405, then let us decide if we can cover the shortfall(maybe it is a bigger number than i realize?). i run an $80million business, i think i understand marketing/cost issues. I am not convinced spreading this out over 2 weekends to maybe gain 15 teams(some/most of which could be repeats) is enough to cast off what used to be a major selling point(the sanctity of everyone, regardless of where they are drafting at the same time), not to mention "breaking up the boys"

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:14 am

Originally posted by moon over my hammy:

The question raised repeatedly on the many, many pages of this thread is related to the rationale for using two dates for the main event draft. when i initially signed up for the NFBC, one of their main selling points was the security related to having all teams draft from multiple locations at one time. now, that doesn't appear to be so important. the bottom line is, if we are spreading this out over two weeks to honor the financial commitment to the flamingo versus using one venue on the 27th, why dont we take a vote? if the vote is let's use one date(ostensibly the 27th), then tell us what the damage is for the flamingo commitment, divide it by 390 or 405, then let us decide if we can cover the shortfall(maybe it is a bigger number than i realize?). i run an $80million business, i think i understand marketing/cost issues. I am not convinced spreading this out over 2 weekends to maybe gain 15 teams(some/most of which could be repeats) is enough to cast off what used to be a major selling point(the sanctity of everyone, regardless of where they are drafting at the same time), not to mention "breaking up the boys" Rusty, correct if spreading this over two weekends is designed to gain 15 teams in the main event than we are dumber than you think. That is not the goal. The goal, as I've said before, is to create an annual two-weekend fantasy baseball EVENT that gives fantasy players everything they could imagine. Not everyone will jump into all that we offer. In fact, I am stating prophetically that everyone who has enjoyed the NFBC the last six years should jump into the March 27th main event when 360 or more owners will be drafting simultaneously at the same time. Nothing changes in the main event there.

If any single owner drafts on March 20th, we all agree that there is NO ADVANTAGE to that owner over those who draft on the 27th, right? But some folks may pick that date because they can't attend on the 20th or have a local league draft on the 27th or WANT TO DRAFT THEN. We are not expecting a large contingent in Las Vegas and on the East Coast for that, but we do hope to lure in a large crowd of serious players for our National Auction Championship, our NFBC Double Play that will be announced tomorrow, and yes, maybe even our Ultimate or Diamond League. We are going to schedule other events beyond the main event on the weekend of March 19-21 and for some folks it's going to be enough to lure them to our live events TWICE IN MARCH.

So there really is nothing to be upset about except for one thing: DO YOU DISLIKE ONE OWNER OWNING TWO MAIN EVENT TEAMS? After 24 pages of debate, that seems to be the extent of the argument, outside of everyone joining us on the 27th for the main event now instead of the 20th (which nobody really seems to mind, which I'm happy about. I thought that would be the big concern, honestly).

If you do have a problem with that, then let's discuss. But if not, then don't worry about our Flamingo contract because I think we're going to be okay there. It's $109 a night to stay on the Strip during March Madness and we may even have an early-bird special for folks who want to come that weekend and stay for a bit.

Stay tuned.

I'll say it again: This is not a one-and-done idea for the NFBC. It's a two-weekend-per-year idea. We can't do everything we want to over three days of the live events if we expect to grow our Auction Championship, Double Play Championship, Ultimates, Supers, Diamonds, etc. We need and want more time. And in the process, we just need to figure out the main event so that nobody feels we've done anything to the integrity of that contest, which currently I don't think we've done.

Does that make sense?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:25 am

And one more point and then I have to work on fantasy football for a bit today: We projected and budgeted 405 teams for the main event this year, one more league than last year. It's obvious we didn't do this with the goal of getting 105 owners to take two teams in the main event. We did it to allow owners a chance to draft on March 20th if they can't make it on March 27th. We also did it to reach our goals in the new events, which we believe will be a staple of our events going forward. And not only that, but we have tens of thousands of additional guaranteed prizes now in the Auction Championship, the Online Championship and the Double Play Championship plus hotel guarantees for two weekends that Fanball is honoring.

So we obviously are putting our money where our mouths are in the NFBC. We are guaranteeing more this year than F+W did the two previous years combined. So again, I'm surprised by folks being upset with more options to play, more prizes to win, more formats to play in (draft, auction, 15-team, 12-team, national contests, private leagues or satellites, etc.). But I know it's all centered around the passion for the Main Event and making sure nothing hurts our signature event. And we did not plan or budget for that to happen.

Again, discuss why we shouldn't allow one principle owner to draft on the 20th and on the 27th again and we'll take up that debate. Because honestly, outside of us losing money on all of this, that seems to be the last cause of concern as long as the gang all shows up on the 27th, right.

Make sense??

billywaz · Post by **billywaz** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:26 am

Originally posted by Ryan Carey:

I'm not a Vegas player, so I am not angling for a VIP pass - but hopefully you can make sure Tom has ample funds for the NYC after draft beer pong outing.Now you're talking brother!!

I realize the "other" cities don't have the "glitz and glamore" of Vegas, but I hope they aren't forgotten.

BEER PONG FUND FOR NYC!!!!

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:31 am

Although the focus of this thread seems to be on the one or two issues people have with the recent announcements, I believe some of the real positives are being missed. The more I read about the new NFBC plans and the more I think about them, the more I like them.

It's starting to sound like a weeklong smorgasborg of Fantasy Baseball spread out over two weekends with an abundance of choices on the menu for everyone.

I also appreciate that the NFBC is going to try to add Event type activities to their contests.

During a thread on the NFFC board, I had asked that contests and activities be added to make that weekend more than just a same day in, same day out Event for me. It sounds like this is what the NFBC is doing with these changes, to the point where this could be a weeklong trek for those who want it to be.

The only thing I may have done differently that I've heard up until now, is I would have probably had the two dates for the Main Event the same weekend and had a completely different contest for the other weekend.

However, outside of that I think the NFBC is heading in an exciting new direction.

I for one love the Platinum Invitational idea, the Auction Championship, the better food & parties being offered and look forward to whatever new announcements are forthcoming this week.

If I can swing it (with both work and the wifey...the wifey being the much tougher sell), I may just take one of my vacation weeks in March and head out to Vegas for that week. All that remains to be seen, but keep up the good work.

Glenn

751542 · Post by **751542** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:45 am

i just dont get why people are so upset over multiple team ownership....its already happened people...did it bother artie rastelli?? david didonato??? lindy??? robert jurney??? terry haney??? oldenski??? or maybe a better question is did these winners have MULTIPLE TEAMS?? i bet no.... get over it people please!!! can you only play 1 lottery ticket at a time??...uh no....enough already...seriously

Cotton1 · Post by **Cotton1** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:31 am

don't get me wrong, i didnt say i ain't coming

just making sure if the root of the problem is the $ tied to the flamingo contract i could pose a possible solution. i dont mind drafting a week later, the week after the draft is traditionally when the positional/closer battles are decided.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:32 am

Originally posted by billywaz:

quote:Originally posted by Ryan Carey:

I'm not a Vegas player, so I am not angling for a VIP pass - but hopefully you can make sure Tom has ample funds for the NYC after draft beer pong outing.Now you're talking brother!!

I realize the "other" cities don't have the "glitz and glamore" of Vegas, but I hope they aren't forgotten.

BEER PONG FUND FOR NYC!!!!

[/QUOTE]New York and Chicago will get the same attention that second weekend. Stay tuned for details on the VIP Beer Pong Party in New York!!

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:36 am

Originally posted by moon over my hammy:

don't get me wrong, i didnt say i ain't coming

just making sure if the root of the problem is the $ tied to the flamingo contract i could pose a possible solution. i dont mind drafting a week later, the week after the draft is traditionally when the positional/closer battles are decided. No, that is NOT the root of the problem. In fact, I think we'll still have plenty of folks who come to Las Vegas for March Madness, will enjoy our bargain basement prices in the GO Rooms (yes, $109 for the GO Rooms), draft or do auctions over our many options that weekend and enjoy everything we are going to offer. We have a big food and beverage minimum to uphold, so Corona's will be flowing like never before, which is saying something for me!!!

We will make it worth everyone's while to come to Las Vegas that weekend, but again, you will be at a disadvantage some think to those drafting on the 27th!! Just understand that if you join us then. To each his own, I always say.

But I am encouraging EVERYONE to come on the 27th. That's when the REAL PARTY/DRAFT will be.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:48 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

Although the focus of this thread seems to be on the one or two issues people have with the recent announcements, I believe some of the real positives are being missed. The more I read about the new NFBC plans and the more I think about them, the more I like them.

It's starting to sound like a weeklong smorgasborg of Fantasy Baseball spread out over two weekends with an abundance of choices on the menu for everyone.

I also appreciate that the NFBC is going to try to add Event type activities to their contests.

During a thread on the NFFC board, I had asked that contests and activities be added to make that weekend more than just a same day in, same day out Event for me. It sounds like this is what the NFBC is doing with these changes, to the point where this could be a weeklong trek for those who want it to be.

The only thing I may have done differently that I've heard up until now, is I would have probably had the two dates for the Main Event the same weekend and had a completely different contest for the other weekend.

However, outside of that I think the NFBC is heading in an exciting new direction.

I for one love the Platinum Invitational idea, the Auction Championship, the better food & parties being offered and look forward to whatever new announcements are forthcoming this week.

If I can swing it (with both work and the wifey...the wifey being the much tougher sell), I may just take one of my vacation weeks in March and head out to Vegas for that week. All that remains to be seen, but keep up the good work.

Glenn You have hit it on the head Glenn. We are trying to create the smorgasbord of fantasy baseball over two weekends and everyone can choose what tastes the best to them. We want to OWN both weekends in March each and every year. There, I said it!! Why is that so hard to see?

There are so many ways to play fantasy baseball that we want both weekends. Maybe a live CDM game appears one day during March Madness. Maybe we do eventually get national AL-only and NL-only auction leagues to go along with everything else we've built. Maybe folks want to do the Diamond, Ultimate and Super leagues, but can't do that all on one weekend. We are trying to make this possible and two weeks of fun makes this happen.

Like you, some are saying that if we wanted two dates for the main event why not make it Friday-Saturday, or two on Saturday or Saturday-Sunday. We could have done that, but that's not the goal of the main event. If someone can't make it on Saturday the 27th then they obviously can't make it on Friday or Sunday. Plus, we did not want to damage our Friday Auction schedule that has been so popular through the years. Walla Walla is quitting because of our announcement, yet we think Friday the 26th will look very similar to past years, just with more auctions and drafts going on around those popular $1300 auctions in Las Vegas.

To make rash decisions before seeing everything is not the smartest move at all. Give us a chance to unveil our plans and then make your decisions. But if you feel like you know it all and already don't like the NFBC, then move on and I'll understand. But I think when folks see everything and get a chance to make their choices, they will see that this is BOLD, AGGRESSIVE, IMAGINATIVE and beyond what you thought would happen in 2010. We're taking all the risks and paying for MORE, MORE, MORE. I'm surprised so many folks would be upset with that. And when a national sponsor or TV network or more sees all of this and says "WOW, what an incredible contest" I know you'll say "I always knew we'd get to this point."

Big things only happen if you think BIG. Tom and I are still running all of this and the game is still the same. But Fanball is trying to take this to the next level and I'm not afraid to go there with them. We'll find out if anyone else is.

billywaz · Post by **billywaz** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:53 am

Originally posted by RoundTrippers:

i just dont get why people are so upset over multiple team ownership....its already happened people...did it bother artie rastelli?? david didonato??? lindy??? robert jurney??? terry haney??? oldenski??? or maybe a better question is did these winners have MULTIPLE TEAMS?? i bet no.... get over it people please!!! can you only play 1 lottery ticket at a time??...uh no....enough already...seriously I agree 100% Rick.

If someone is willing to RISK another $1,400 or whatever, they now have TWO teams to manage each week (twice the work), and history has shown that unless your initials are S.C, the chances of both teams being "successful" are slim.

This is actually a "blessing" for the single team owners as the multiple team owners have to spread their resources out, and can't focus on one team.

rkulaski · Post by **rkulaski** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:40 am

Originally posted by billywaz:

quote:Originally posted by RoundTrippers:

i just dont get why people are so upset over multiple team ownership....its already happened people...did it bother artie rastelli?? david didonato??? lindy??? robert jurney??? terry haney??? oldenski??? or maybe a better question is did these winners have MULTIPLE TEAMS?? i bet no.... get over it people please!!! can you only play 1 lottery ticket at a time??...uh no....enough already...seriously I agree 100% Rick.

If someone is willing to RISK another $1,400 or whatever, they now have TWO teams to manage each week (twice the work), and history has shown that unless your initials are S.C, the chances of both teams being "successful" are slim.

This is actually a "blessing" for the single team owners as the multiple team owners have to spread their resources out, and can't focus on one team. [/QUOTE]Good point, Billywaz. So anyone can have multiple entries in the main except for Childs. Works for me.

Ok, Greg, I think I'm also changing my tune and I'm on board more and more with these new changes.

1 Question: When I was looking at the tentative locations for all of this, is Chicago only hosting events on the second weekend??? I didn't see Chicago listed for both weekends.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:24 am

Look forward to the day its like the World Series of poker. That means you will be out here for 4 or 5 weeks running events.

Then I will be able to start selling some Las Vegas real estate to the particpants. Heck lets start now!

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:31 pm

Originally posted by rkulaski:

[QUOTE]1 Question: When I was looking at the tentative locations for all of this, is Chicago only hosting events on the second weekend??? I didn't see Chicago listed for both weekends. Yes, one event in Chicago this year, the weekend of March 27th. But we may have a different Midwest option on March 20th. Stay tuned.

Purple Helmets · Post by **Purple Helmets** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:32 pm

Originally posted by RoundTrippers:

i just dont get why people are so upset over multiple team ownership....its already happened people...did it bother artie rastelli?? david didonato??? lindy??? robert jurney??? terry haney??? oldenski??? or maybe a better question is did these winners have MULTIPLE TEAMS?? i bet no.... get over it people please!!! can you only play 1 lottery ticket at a time??...uh no....enough already...seriously Go get 'em Rick!!!

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:43 pm

Originally posted by RoundTrippers:

i just dont get why people are so upset over multiple team ownership....its already happened people...did it bother artie rastelli?? david didonato??? lindy??? robert jurney??? terry haney??? oldenski??? or maybe a better question is did these winners have MULTIPLE TEAMS?? i bet no.... get over it people please!!! can you only play 1 lottery ticket at a time??...uh no....enough already...seriously I understand where you're coming from, Rick...but isn't it a bit funny how the multiple team ownership was kinda pushed through by the big players? Kinda like "no big deal...we can do it up front, or do it under the table."

When you do it under the table...you actually take a chance at crowning your co-partner champion...oooooh the pain of that!

The boss"es" kinda never batted an eye...like it was a welcomed "bail out" of the fantasy sports industry.

I wonder...no...I guarantee...if enough people would have spoken up when they had the chance,,,when all of this multiple team ownership was just being uncovered...it would have been ruled illegal.

But alas...the spineless never unite...so it's just another accepted truth now...isn't it?

Weird.

[ October 12, 2009, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]