Greg, This is not about baseball at all. My question is has the MLB won already? It seems they have already divided those that should be joining ranks. Sure I like to play the NFBC but I like the choice to play CDM or any other site also. It seems to me that those that are getting the nod have already known it was coming and have played ball with the MLB (owners). NFBC included.
Others that have been left out are hung out to dry. I know one thing about my history. Divide and conquer is coming. Everyone will end up losing. If the FSTA stands for anything you better get in gear quick!
Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
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Walla Walla
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Greg Ambrosius
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Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
Originally posted by Walla Walla:
Greg, This is not about baseball at all. My question is has the MLB won already? It seems they have already divided those that should be joining ranks. Sure I like to play the NFBC but I like the choice to play CDM or any other site also. It seems to me that those that are getting the nod have already known it was coming and have played ball with the MLB (owners). NFBC included.
Others that have been left out are hung out to dry. I know one thing about my history. Divide and conquer is coming. Everyone will end up losing. If the FSTA stands for anything you better get in gear quick! Well, it's an interesting analysis John but it's not exactly accurate. This deal between the MLBPA and MLBAM did come as a surprise to most everyone in the industry and even those of us who were licensed last year didn't know why we weren't getting any response from the MLBPA about 2005 contracts in December and January. It was very frustrating for all of us and I know it was frustrating for the MLBPA, who was negotiating a new deal and really couldn't divulge any information, even to their licensees. So nobody had the inside scoop on this.
Since that deal was announced on Jan. 19th, it's obviously been difficult for anyone to get a new deal done quickly under new terms. Some companies have chosen not to assume they are getting a license and thus have taken down their games on the advice of counsel, while others feel they have to continue to conduct business as usual. It's a tough time and I know exactly how everyone feels on both sides of the aisle. All I've done all day is talk to people about this and it's gut-wrenching.
There were some companies who were told they would not get licensed in 2005, for whatever reason. No company with under 5,000 participants has been told that. No incredibly large company has been told that. For whatever reason -- and you'll have to ask MLBAM -- some companies in the middle tier have received letters that said they would not get a license. CDM was one of them, even though they are backed by Gannett and USA Today. It's my own personal opinion that if we really want to grow the fantasy baseball industry, having Gannett involved is critical, but obviously I don't make the decisions. So CDM did what it had to do to protect its rights to operate in 2005.
The FSTA is not divided. We have 182 corporate members and we will solve this together. There has to be a better resolution, but if it goes to court then I guess we'll know who was right, although it could create irreparable damage to the industry, an industry I love and where I've spent the last 16 years working as hard as anyone around. I don't expect to see our industry divided or conquered or anything else. I think we'll figure this out somehow and I think I'll somehow, someway have a role in that.
But trust me, nobody knows how this will play out yet. I don't. The NFBC doesn't. CDM doesn't. ESPN doesn't. Maybe even MLBAM doesn't. Our Trade Conference on March 16-17 in Las Vegas will be critical for everyone and it's possible even the licensors will be there to address this. We need to work together, not apart, to grow this industry and still give everyone a role in it. I think it can still happen.
I'll be running the Trade Conference before the NFBC. I think the NFBC will be like a walk in the park compared to that conference!
Greg, This is not about baseball at all. My question is has the MLB won already? It seems they have already divided those that should be joining ranks. Sure I like to play the NFBC but I like the choice to play CDM or any other site also. It seems to me that those that are getting the nod have already known it was coming and have played ball with the MLB (owners). NFBC included.
Others that have been left out are hung out to dry. I know one thing about my history. Divide and conquer is coming. Everyone will end up losing. If the FSTA stands for anything you better get in gear quick! Well, it's an interesting analysis John but it's not exactly accurate. This deal between the MLBPA and MLBAM did come as a surprise to most everyone in the industry and even those of us who were licensed last year didn't know why we weren't getting any response from the MLBPA about 2005 contracts in December and January. It was very frustrating for all of us and I know it was frustrating for the MLBPA, who was negotiating a new deal and really couldn't divulge any information, even to their licensees. So nobody had the inside scoop on this.
Since that deal was announced on Jan. 19th, it's obviously been difficult for anyone to get a new deal done quickly under new terms. Some companies have chosen not to assume they are getting a license and thus have taken down their games on the advice of counsel, while others feel they have to continue to conduct business as usual. It's a tough time and I know exactly how everyone feels on both sides of the aisle. All I've done all day is talk to people about this and it's gut-wrenching.
There were some companies who were told they would not get licensed in 2005, for whatever reason. No company with under 5,000 participants has been told that. No incredibly large company has been told that. For whatever reason -- and you'll have to ask MLBAM -- some companies in the middle tier have received letters that said they would not get a license. CDM was one of them, even though they are backed by Gannett and USA Today. It's my own personal opinion that if we really want to grow the fantasy baseball industry, having Gannett involved is critical, but obviously I don't make the decisions. So CDM did what it had to do to protect its rights to operate in 2005.
The FSTA is not divided. We have 182 corporate members and we will solve this together. There has to be a better resolution, but if it goes to court then I guess we'll know who was right, although it could create irreparable damage to the industry, an industry I love and where I've spent the last 16 years working as hard as anyone around. I don't expect to see our industry divided or conquered or anything else. I think we'll figure this out somehow and I think I'll somehow, someway have a role in that.
But trust me, nobody knows how this will play out yet. I don't. The NFBC doesn't. CDM doesn't. ESPN doesn't. Maybe even MLBAM doesn't. Our Trade Conference on March 16-17 in Las Vegas will be critical for everyone and it's possible even the licensors will be there to address this. We need to work together, not apart, to grow this industry and still give everyone a role in it. I think it can still happen.
I'll be running the Trade Conference before the NFBC. I think the NFBC will be like a walk in the park compared to that conference!
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
an industry I love and where I've spent the last 16 years working as hard as anyone around. No one has worked harder for this industry than Greg. No one ever could possibly in the future either.
To any fantasy customers out there.... It's time to really support the game(s) you love most. By an extra team if you can afford it, especially CDM. I bought two teams today in support of them and I haven't played baseball since '03. When it comes down to it, they are picking up the tab for all us in the industry in this fight, and more importantly, you the customer so that you can have a choice in the market place.
Nate's article on Rototimes said it best. Read it if you haven't already.
an industry I love and where I've spent the last 16 years working as hard as anyone around. No one has worked harder for this industry than Greg. No one ever could possibly in the future either.
To any fantasy customers out there.... It's time to really support the game(s) you love most. By an extra team if you can afford it, especially CDM. I bought two teams today in support of them and I haven't played baseball since '03. When it comes down to it, they are picking up the tab for all us in the industry in this fight, and more importantly, you the customer so that you can have a choice in the market place.
Nate's article on Rototimes said it best. Read it if you haven't already.
Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
I am not an official part of the industry, just a participant for a long time. It seems to me that CDM would have been among the first choices for MLB to partner up with. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the CDM games (initially Sporting News) were the first ones that I noticed that marketed to huge pools of ownership. It must have been 10-12 years ago that I got into the Sporting News salary cap game and was one of 12,000 entries.
There were other companies before that, I know. I played in a league in '91 that was based here in Washington that had about 1000 players nationwide. He had to pull up stakes though due to Washington State gaming laws.
It just seems that a company that has done so much to grow the game should not be left in the cold.
There were other companies before that, I know. I played in a league in '91 that was based here in Washington that had about 1000 players nationwide. He had to pull up stakes though due to Washington State gaming laws.
It just seems that a company that has done so much to grow the game should not be left in the cold.
Ken
Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
If you think about it objectively the CDM game plan might just be the most profitable in the industry, and the one that MLBAM wants to emulate and improve with video of each of you players highlights and what not.
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sportsbettingman
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Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
That last line was a major one...real time vs. a day or two later could be the ringer!
I couldn't care less about real time...especially for baseball. I couldn't care less about Team Logos, the MLB logo, photos, videos or any of the flashy crap. That's all fine if it's free...but it doesn't make the game better at all.
I truely hope CDM has great lawyers...and other folks jump into the mix...and due away with any licensing from the league. (extortion).
If need be...we could easily take it underground. Assemble in Vegas...put up the money to be held by Greg (with cut included)...do the stats ourselves using the next days official stats...and e-mail the standings. (eliminating the targeted software numbers crunching and displaying) Smaller big money leagues.
The more I read...the more angry I get. These guys from MLB are money hungry morons who will get what they deserve by pulling the rug out from under themselves!
~Lance
I couldn't care less about real time...especially for baseball. I couldn't care less about Team Logos, the MLB logo, photos, videos or any of the flashy crap. That's all fine if it's free...but it doesn't make the game better at all.
I truely hope CDM has great lawyers...and other folks jump into the mix...and due away with any licensing from the league. (extortion).
If need be...we could easily take it underground. Assemble in Vegas...put up the money to be held by Greg (with cut included)...do the stats ourselves using the next days official stats...and e-mail the standings. (eliminating the targeted software numbers crunching and displaying) Smaller big money leagues.
The more I read...the more angry I get. These guys from MLB are money hungry morons who will get what they deserve by pulling the rug out from under themselves!
~Lance
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once."
~Albert Einstein
~Albert Einstein
Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
Greg,
Maybe we could get the NHL people to intervene and help work out the differences.
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Maybe we could get the NHL people to intervene and help work out the differences.
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Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
For a long and sometimes difficult review of the issues, I recommend the comments of the blogger calling himself "backlash" in this thread on The Baseball Think Factory: BTF Primer Discussion.
He gets to the gist of it in post number 96, near the end of his comments. The issue isn't copyright, it's "publicity rights." Are the players' names just "incidental," used only in the identification of the (non-copyrighted) stats, or are the names integral to the products CDM is selling? In order for CDM to prevail, they are going to have to show that their use of the names in conjunction with the stats meets one of the recognized exceptions to publicity rights -- like news, academic research, etc.
I don't think it looks good for CDM. I read a discussion of a Law Review article in which the participants all seemed to believe that the players do have publicity rights. I think the best possible outcome would be that since there is so much at stake, MLBAM doesn't risk going to court and grants CDM a license in exchange for CDM dropping the suit.
Regardless, the consumer is going suffer. MLBAM could have done this much better, just granting everyone a license on reasonable terms.
He gets to the gist of it in post number 96, near the end of his comments. The issue isn't copyright, it's "publicity rights." Are the players' names just "incidental," used only in the identification of the (non-copyrighted) stats, or are the names integral to the products CDM is selling? In order for CDM to prevail, they are going to have to show that their use of the names in conjunction with the stats meets one of the recognized exceptions to publicity rights -- like news, academic research, etc.
I don't think it looks good for CDM. I read a discussion of a Law Review article in which the participants all seemed to believe that the players do have publicity rights. I think the best possible outcome would be that since there is so much at stake, MLBAM doesn't risk going to court and grants CDM a license in exchange for CDM dropping the suit.
Regardless, the consumer is going suffer. MLBAM could have done this much better, just granting everyone a license on reasonable terms.
- A.P.
Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
So, I am not a lawyer but this seems idiotic
1) Stats are in the publich domain (1997 case)
2) Names are integral in presenting stats
3) Do trivial pursuit makers give moneyto celebrity or sports figures who are answers published in their game?
In that same theme, do celebrites get paid for those shots in the enquirer? Comeon, this is just stupid
I am glad CDM is going to fight - they should win this. Just like the NHL players, greed may kill a good thing...
Advanced Media agreed that statistics are public domain, "but using statistics for commercial gain is something else."
So does The Sporting News have to pay a licensing fee for publishing stats? Will fantasy sports mags have to pay? where does this end?
Just my 2 cents
[ February 11, 2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Spyhunter ]
1) Stats are in the publich domain (1997 case)
2) Names are integral in presenting stats
3) Do trivial pursuit makers give moneyto celebrity or sports figures who are answers published in their game?
In that same theme, do celebrites get paid for those shots in the enquirer? Comeon, this is just stupid
I am glad CDM is going to fight - they should win this. Just like the NHL players, greed may kill a good thing...
Advanced Media agreed that statistics are public domain, "but using statistics for commercial gain is something else."
So does The Sporting News have to pay a licensing fee for publishing stats? Will fantasy sports mags have to pay? where does this end?
Just my 2 cents
[ February 11, 2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Spyhunter ]
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sportsbettingman
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Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
So...there's freedom of the press to send a rep to a ballgame...and log in the stats from the game in an accurate manner.
There's freedom of a computer programmer to asemble these stats into whatever means he chooses.
There's freedom to compete for money in games of skill.
Why do you have to pay $250,000 or $500,000 to put bells and whistles on the product? Leave them off and pay nothing.
Color the STL1B in red and white or black...color the LA SP2 in Blue and white font. Use initials with a common letter in the middle to get around the laws. Let them stew over our ability to get around the laws, and survive.
Like you said Greg...it's all about the competition...and our teams rank, and how close we are to winning. It has little to do with the flair of all the decorative stuff and the players names.
Allow our team logos to replace theirs. Get a good lawyer to let us know what it takes to get around all the laws...and your league would still flourish.
~Lance
There's freedom of a computer programmer to asemble these stats into whatever means he chooses.
There's freedom to compete for money in games of skill.
Why do you have to pay $250,000 or $500,000 to put bells and whistles on the product? Leave them off and pay nothing.
Color the STL1B in red and white or black...color the LA SP2 in Blue and white font. Use initials with a common letter in the middle to get around the laws. Let them stew over our ability to get around the laws, and survive.
Like you said Greg...it's all about the competition...and our teams rank, and how close we are to winning. It has little to do with the flair of all the decorative stuff and the players names.
Allow our team logos to replace theirs. Get a good lawyer to let us know what it takes to get around all the laws...and your league would still flourish.
~Lance
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once."
~Albert Einstein
~Albert Einstein
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Greg Ambrosius
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Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
Lance, what's it going to take to get you officially in the NFBC? We have 84 spots left and few in Las Vegas, so your procrastinating is running out of time! Give me a shout this week via e-mail or phone and let's get busy. I feel the baseball blood starting to flow a little more and all you need is a good push over to the dark side! I'm willing to give you that push.
[email protected] or 715-445-4612, ext. 284
Give me a shout this week via e-mail or phone and let's get busy. I feel the baseball blood starting to flow a little more and all you need is a good push over to the dark side! I'm willing to give you that push.[email protected] or 715-445-4612, ext. 284
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
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sportsbettingman
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Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
OK Greg...we win...
I just got the look from the wife...like I already sent in the money and commited to Vegas....and it wasn't as bad as I thought...so I may as well send you the dough.
I'll call you for fun...but it looks to me like you got me. Gekko wanted the referal bonus for nudging me over via e-mail.
Let me know the details...(650) 642-0689 it's time to bring my baseball skills to the next level!
~Lance
[ February 13, 2005, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]
I just got the look from the wife...like I already sent in the money and commited to Vegas....and it wasn't as bad as I thought...so I may as well send you the dough.
I'll call you for fun...but it looks to me like you got me. Gekko wanted the referal bonus for nudging me over via e-mail.
Let me know the details...(650) 642-0689 it's time to bring my baseball skills to the next level!
~Lance
[ February 13, 2005, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once."
~Albert Einstein
~Albert Einstein
Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
Is there a referral bonus?
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Greg Ambrosius
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Fantasy Sports Trade Association Dead?
Good to hear Lance. I'll give you a call this morning. I'll note that Gekko was the referral as he needs another $100 to go with that $102,000+ he won in the NFFC.
Yes, I'll pay a $100 referral fee for bringing in new members this year. Word-of-mouth advertising is the best advertising I can get.
Oh, and Lance, I know that look you're talking about. The wives can kill you with those looks!
[ February 13, 2005, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Greg Ambrosius ]
Yes, I'll pay a $100 referral fee for bringing in new members this year. Word-of-mouth advertising is the best advertising I can get.
Oh, and Lance, I know that look you're talking about. The wives can kill you with those looks!
[ February 13, 2005, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Greg Ambrosius ]
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius