...but what grinds YOUR gears?

[bluenose]

Shandler's "BS projections" clearly grind GG's gears, but what grinds yours?



I'll go first:



What grinds my gears is the amount of crap that passes for fantasy analysis on the Web. Today, for instance, there's a guy writing on Rotoworld saying "Draft [these players] only if you dare". The thrust of the article is that these guys are overhyped at best, and sub-replacement value at worst.



He's scoring the guys based off MDC ADP. That makes as much sense as any other yardstick. I get that. What I don't get is his distribution of players. Of about ten guys listed, only Matt Cain (#88) has an ADP less than 100. On his front page he's got Scott Sizemore (#329), Aubrey Huff (#324), and Scotty Pods (#317) in the 300s, Joel Pineiro (#270), and Rafael Furcal (#130).



So for Sizemore, for instance, he says the guy is a risk because he has no major league experience. REALLY?! I'll tell you what, son. If you're sitting there at pick #329 and you can find someone who'll make positive contributions with no risk, go ahead. Maybe that guy on the Phillies is available, Utley. Oh, never mind him. He has a cranky hip.



That grinds my gears. And I couldn't even pick Scott Sizemore out of a lineup.

[Gekko]

how about owners who use "gimmicks" to win leagues (or just plain old finish in the money). i'm talking about all RP strateg or punting saves or punting hr/rbi...



has a "gimmick" owner ever cost you money? how did it feel? worse than getting beat by a "regular" owner?

[The RoundTrippers]

or how about an owner who is "inactive" for months and suddenly becomes active just to try and take points away fron "an owner" who is competing to win their league. and then the worse part is the owner who claims this "conspiracy" runs going away and basically "cried wolf"

[Gekko]

Originally posted by The RoundTrippers:

or how about an owner who is "inactive" for months and suddenly becomes active just to try and take points away fron "an owner" who is competing to win their league. and then the worse part is the owner who claims this "conspiracy" runs going away and basically "cried wolf" the owner who "cried wolf" as you put it, was IN SECOND PLACE to begin the final week of the season.

[DoubleX]

Originally posted by The RoundTrippers:

or how about an owner who is "inactive" for months and suddenly becomes active just to try and take points away fron "an owner" who is competing to win their league. and then the worse part is the owner who claims this "conspiracy" runs going away and basically "cried wolf" Hahaha Classic. Nicely done Sir.

[Sebadiah23]

I'm shying away from satellites this year because "gimmick" owners kill them for me. Sure, they aren't fun to lose against, but also they're not fun to draft against, or play against period. Just to be clear, by "not fun" I don't mean whether its easier or hard, because I won a league last year that had 4 "gimmickers", I mean that it ruins the gaming experience for me. It makes me not want to sign up for a satellite until 14 owners have signed up in front of me who I know play the game straight.





Gimmick owners are costing NFBC money.

[sportsbettingman]

Originally posted by Sebadiah23:

I'm shying away from satellites this year because "gimmick" owners kill them for me. Sure, they aren't fun to lose against, but also they're not fun to draft against, or play against period. Just to be clear, by "not fun" I don't mean whether its easier or hard, because I won a league last year that had 4 "gimmickers", I mean that it ruins the gaming experience for me. It makes me not want to sign up for a satellite until 14 owners have signed up in front of me who I know play the game straight.





Gimmick owners are costing NFBC money. Bullshit.



[ January 25, 2010, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

[Purple Helmets]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by Sebadiah23:

I'm shying away from satellites this year because "gimmick" owners kill them for me. Sure, they aren't fun to lose against, but also they're not fun to draft against, or play against period. Just to be clear, by "not fun" I don't mean whether its easier or hard, because I won a league last year that had 4 "gimmickers", I mean that it ruins the gaming experience for me. It makes me not want to sign up for a satellite until 14 owners have signed up in front of me who I know play the game straight.





Gimmick owners are costing NFBC money. Bullshit. [/QUOTE]Lance, how do you really feel?

[GOD Loves You]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by Sebadiah23:

I'm shying away from satellites this year because "gimmick" owners kill them for me. Sure, they aren't fun to lose against, but also they're not fun to draft against, or play against period. Just to be clear, by "not fun" I don't mean whether its easier or hard, because I won a league last year that had 4 "gimmickers", I mean that it ruins the gaming experience for me. It makes me not want to sign up for a satellite until 14 owners have signed up in front of me who I know play the game straight.





Gimmick owners are costing NFBC money. Bullshit. [/QUOTE]Agree with the fecal comment.



The NFFC was supposedly losing money due to one person and the NFBC is losing money to gimmick drafters??? Seems like both contests are doing just fine, even with a few people avoiding a few satellite leagues.



Where can I find the "Fantasy Baseball Drafting Etiquette 101" class? I didn't realize there were certain parameters one must follow to play the game "straight." I always thought the goal was to win the league, regardless of strategy.



Seriously, who deems what is "straight" and what is not??

[Sebadiah23]

I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I'm simply saying what grinds my gears and makes me not want to play in those satellites. Please don't put words in my mouth, as I wouldn't to you.

[GOD Loves You]

Originally posted by Sebadiah23:

I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I'm simply saying what grinds my gears and makes me not want to play in those satellites. Please don't put words in my mouth, as I wouldn't to you. Doubly



I'm simply trying to figure out how the game is played straight, from not only you, but others who perceive there is a certain way to build a team....sure, it's done in jest, but if there really is a straight way, I'd like to know what it is.

[Sebadiah23]

You're asking a stupid question and expecting an intelligent answer. So I'll give you one. Compared to a points league, which is the extreme in the other direction, obtaining a balance in 10 categories just enough to beat your next highest opponent, rather than just obtaining the highest points by ANY means. Those are two different extremes. When you tank two categories, you are applying a points league slanted strategy as a short-cut to win a roto league. It's not whether it's legal or not. It's just low class in my opinion. It's like always using the warp zones on Super Mario Bros to quickly get to level 8 and finish the game. You're not taking advantage of the rewarding challenges that are the essence of the game.



Don't just play to win the game. Play the game to play the game. Play the game with honor, as the roto gods intended.



And the roto gods will love you.



-Craig

[glenlake22]

Using AVG over OBP.

[crazytown]

Not one time on any post have I seen this question answered.



Assuming no owner is trying any "gimmick strategy", how do you make sure an owner drafts players that will obtain saves? In a 15 team league, as we know going into the draft, there are sometimes only 20 or so definite closers available and then potential closers.



So since Saves is one of the categories some owners might not be able to obtain a closer. Therefore he is basically forced to punt that category.



And those owners might not have gone into the draft with that concept but the draft fell that way for them and they had to adapt. And if it's okay to punt 1 category, why not more than 1 category?

I believe most owners against any "gimmicks" would not have any problem with my example provided above. So is it just punting more than 1 that upsets most?





Just wondering?

[Chest Rockwell]

Originally posted by Sebadiah23:

You're asking a stupid question and expecting an intelligent answer. So I'll give you one. Compared to a points league, which is the extreme in the other direction, obtaining a balance in 10 categories just enough to beat your next highest opponent, rather than just obtaining the highest points by ANY means. Those are two different extremes. When you tank two categories, you are applying a points league slanted strategy as a short-cut to win a roto league. It's not whether it's legal or not. It's just low class in my opinion. It's like always using the warp zones on Super Mario Bros to quickly get to level 8 and finish the game. You're not taking advantage of the rewarding challenges that are the essence of the game.



Don't just play to win the game. Play the game to play the game. Play the game with honor, as the roto gods intended.



And the roto gods will love you.



-Craig Well said except the dorky part about Mario Brothers

[GOD Loves You]

Originally posted by Sebadiah23:

You're asking a stupid question and expecting an intelligent answer. It's not whether it's legal or not. It's just low class in my opinion.



Don't just play to win the game. Play the game to play the game. Play the game with honor, as the roto gods intended.



-Craig Stupid question, okay....it's actually a question without an answer because there isn't a certain way to play fantasy baseball.



Like you said, it's your opinion....others opinions are to win the league, regardless of their leaguemates opinions. It's not like these people are stealing draft picks or changing peoples lineups. They are playing and at times winning in a so-called ethical/gimmicky way.



I'm guessing you are against the forward pass for football. How about the DH in baseball?? Maybe the three point line in basketball?? Utility spots in fantasy leagues??



Ever heard Herm Edwards...."you play to win the game"?



BTW, the roto gods started with 8 categories in a single league, so I guess we're all damned when we play in a 5x5 mixed.



Craig, red or blue?

[CC's Desperados]

Originally posted by crazytown.gov:

Not one time on any post have I seen this question answered.



Assuming no owner is trying any "gimmick strategy", how do you make sure an owner drafts players that will obtain saves? In a 15 team league, as we know going into the draft, there are sometimes only 20 or so definite closers available and then potential closers.



So since Saves is one of the categories some owners might not be able to obtain a closer. Therefore he is basically forced to punt that category.



And those owners might not have gone into the draft with that concept but the draft fell that way for them and they had to adapt. And if it's okay to punt 1 category, why not more than 1 category?

I believe most owners against any "gimmicks" would not have any problem with my example provided above. So is it just punting more than 1 that upsets most?





Just wondering? I think you are right about this part.



I think some players want to do slow drafts to get a feel for the flow of players in January. When players enter the starting gate with different plans, it changes the player flow. Is it that good or bad? I'm sure that it really doesn't matter that much.



As for your example, you might get a fair 10-15 rounds before a player decides to change his plan on the fly. In these January drafts it is really tough to pull the trigger on poor closer. When you add that to the leagues that win entries for the top three places, it changes the draft dynamics a lot.

[KJ Duke]

Originally posted by glenlake22:

Using AVG over OBP. Recommendations to change to OBP over BA.



BB rate is fairly stable, I have yet to see a good argument for switching. (The fact that OBP may be a better indicator of player skill isn't a good argument).

[CC's Desperados]

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by glenlake22:

Using AVG over OBP. Recommendations to change to OBP over BA.



BB rate is fairly stable, I have yet to see a good argument for switching. (The fact that OBP may be a better indicator of player skill isn't a good argument). [/QUOTE]KJ is our official anti OBP leader.



I support this meesage.

[Ryan C]

I'll reword the "gimmick" case this way- and I'm borrowing this somewhat from Childs - it would be great to have a choice of a format where players couldn't avoid tackling the toughest task in fantasy - assembling a Rotation of SP's.



I have often been on the side arguing against the All RP strategy in SATs. But I will be the first to acknowledge that this is not a strategy for the unskilled or weak hearted owner. And I don't agree with calling those players low class or under handed. They play by the rules like anyone else.



We've debated this many times

And likely will continue to do so - but the fact remains that as long as the rules make these strategies viable - you will always find a couple owners who will give it a go.



I veered to a strategy of not paying for saves (or punting) in my last draft. I didn't draft the Top guys in the early going and I didn't grab the questionable guys mid draft. I walked away with Dotel and 4 set-up guys. But I still have a staff of SP's. Who knows - by Opening Day I may have more actual closers than my league mates (I can dream - right?)



I understand the decision by the powers that be to allow owners to draft and manage a team as they desire. However -Maybe it's finally time for a 1200 IP minimum SAT league on the list. If it fills up - then we'll know there is a demand for this type of league. Choice is never a bad thing IMO.



[ January 26, 2010, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: Ryan Carey ]

[Hoosier]

Ryan,



I agree with everything you so eloquently stated. Choice is not a bad thing and I truly believe that fantasy baseball "purists" would overwhelmingly sign up for these leagues, me included!



Hoosier

[crazytown]

So I guess the last 2 posters are okay with the punting of 1 category because it would set a limit(IP minimum at 1200), therefore keeping the punted cats. to a minimum.

[Ryan C]

I think I stated it pretty clearly - I'd like to see a league, an option, where everyone had to roster and start a reasonable amount of SP's-a higher innings threshold accomplishes this and weekly lineups serve as an unstated but present innings limit.



I don't care how many categories you want to punt as long as you have to at least wade knee deep into the pitching side of the ledger.



That is my main argument against the All RP strategy - by avoiding SP's and punting W's and K's - you eliminate the risk in ERA and WHIP and corner the market on saves. And like it or not - it can drain the fun out of a draft and a league for some owners.



If you tank saves or steals - yes you can hopefully gain advantages in other categories - but you are not taking an entire position out of play.

[Gekko]

Want to limit or eliminate "gimmick" strategies, in order to win your league, your team could not have been the worst team in your league in any of the 10 categories.

[Walla Walla]

Wow, I agree with Mark. I think I'm going to be sick.