60 seconds to make your picks?

papercutsuicide · Post by **papercutsuicide** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:55 am

imo, this is not nearly enough time, considering what's at stake. In yahoo default leagues, you get 90 seconds, and I have found that this is not even enough time. can any consideration be given to lengthening the selection time? I'd give it at least 2 minutes.

Plymouth · Post by **Plymouth** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:03 am

Two minutes per pick would be a nice luxury but that would make the draft 17 hours long.

papercutsuicide · Post by **papercutsuicide** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:07 am

Actually, the max time would be 14.5 hours.

But you are assuming that everybody would always use the full 2 minutes. which won't happen. i have observed in my 4 years of playing that most people pick relatively quickly...but on a few picks during the draft, you are thrown into a quandary because the guy right before you takes the guy you were going to pick.

LB Big Richards · Post by **LB Big Richards** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:07 am

Hmmmm, unless you're looking for a 10 hour draft...

Seriously, by the time the draft admin finds the sticker of the player and posts it on the board, you end up getting plenty of time to make your pick. As long as you're prepared, the 60 seconds should not be an issue.

papercutsuicide · Post by **papercutsuicide** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:13 am

a 10 hour draft wouldn't bother me at all. Hell, even a 15-hour draft wouldn't bother me. IMO, the draft is the funnest part of participating in a league, and the time flies by.

LB Big Richards · Post by **LB Big Richards** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:25 am

I beg to differ. I think you're confusing the number of drafts to length of drafts. I'd much rather do two, five hour drafts than one ten hour draft.

Besides, there's plenty of poker tables and scantily clad hotties waiting to be played on

Leaderboard Sports · Post by **Leaderboard Sports** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:29 am

Originally posted by papercutsuicide:

a 10 hour draft wouldn't bother me at all. Hell, even a 15-hour draft wouldn't bother me. IMO, the draft is the funnest part of participating in a league, and the time flies by. That's why several of us are doing 3 drafts in Vegas in a 30 hour time frame

The WCOFB allows only 30 seconds for the last third of their draft and it didn't cause any problems last year

Leaderboard Sports · Post by **Leaderboard Sports** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:48 am

Greg,

Along these same lines a hypothetical question for you.

Your time is clicking down to 0 and you announce your selection which is a player already taken a few rounds earlier. After this error is noticed what do you do? Look at the guy say he's taken and wait for another selection from him, or say he's taken put the next guy on the clock and after that pick then go back to the mistake guy.

And if the latter is the case what if the guy as soon as he realizes the mistake calls out another players name, clearly after the clock reached zero but before the next player is put on the clock?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:22 am

We are sticking with the one minute time limit because as has already been pointed out, by the time the draft facilitator puts the sticker on the board, you're looking at 1:15 or more. I'm convinced many people will be prepared and this draft will cruise faster than the stickers can fly on the boards, but I'm keeping the last one-third of the draft at one minute because that's when the toughest decisions have to be made. All in all, I see drafts going 4-5 hours as we will be strict with no longer than 15 minutes for the two breaks.

As for Ken's question, if you make a pick of a player that has already been selected at the end of your time limit, the draft facilitator will give you 15 additional seconds to make another pick. If you miss again, your turn will be passed to the next person up and you then will have one minute after him to get a correct pick in. You get one mulligan per pick and that's it. Hope that makes sense.

a · Post by a » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:41 am

When we wait for the facilitators to put the sticker on the boards, it takes them 45 - 60 seconds to do it and then you have another 60 seconds to pick. You have more than enough time, but I will give some advice that I seem to give often when drafting....

1- You get a draft pick EVERY round, so you know you will get a pick in every round.

2- The draft goes in the same order EVERY OTHER round, so you will know who if before you each round. Tehre is no confusing reshuffling of draft picks.

3- There is no crime in preparing several picks IN ADVANCE of your pick. So if your pick is 3 picks away, start looking at your top 3 players you want. If someone takes a player you have on your list, take him off the list, and then you only have 2 to think about.

4- Right after the person the is before you picks, it will take @45 seconds for facilitators to put the stickers up, you can actually think about your pick in that time period, and then you get another 60 seconds.

5- Never drink before the draft, I don't like taking that extra break to remove the drunk that is sitting next to me.

By following the above guidelines, time should never be an issue.

papercutsuicide · Post by **papercutsuicide** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:52 am

The only argument I've heard against giving 2 minutes for each pick is that it will extend the total draft time (it would, but not by much). Is this the only argument against? To me, that's not a very strong argument against; the draft is fun, and the time flies by anyway. IMO, the argument for more time is much stronger: you have a much greater chance to avoid dumb mistakes that you might be pressured into making.

The dynamics of each draft are such that your best-laid plans often get thrown right out the window after the draft starts. I don't believe that having an iron-clad draft list is the way to go; it's far better to react to who the other GM's are picking, and what the general tenor of the draft is.

And as I pointed out before, on most picks, you wouldn't use even a minute. There are apt to be only a few picks out of the 29 where 2 or more minutes would be necessary. Maybe the league designer can compromise a little on this issue and allow each user a few rounds where he can take 3 minutes to make the pick (say, 4 or so rounds where he can do this), but all of the other rounds are 60-second picks.

Leaderboard Sports · Post by **Leaderboard Sports** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:00 am

I don't think you will see any flexibility in this rule. With two National drafts going on in Las Vegas, one right after the other, and several people participating in both, there isn't enough time.

papercutsuicide · Post by **papercutsuicide** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:08 am

thanks, you've given another argument against (the fact that there is a second draft for a second type of competition scheduled after the 1st).

oh well, I guess that means that I won't be playing then.

LB Big Richards · Post by **LB Big Richards** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:12 am

OK, now you're trying to make this complicated when it doesn't have to be. Just take it from us experienced draft participants, time hasn't and won't be an issue.

Say you're picking 8th. This gives you another 15 picks - roughly 15-20 minutes - before your next draftee. Are you saying you can't plan ahead and have several different options within that time period? Are you saying the guy choosing 9th will have that much of an effect that you can't decide on who to take amongst your 3-4 possibilities?

It's your call on whether to participate or not. We're just trying to accurate answer your concerns based on our experience with past drafts.

LB Big Richards · Post by **LB Big Richards** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:14 am

OK, now you're trying to make this complicated when it doesn't have to be. Just take it from us experienced draft participants, time hasn't and won't be an issue.

Say you're picking 8th. This gives you another 15 picks - roughly 15-20 minutes - before your next draftee. Are you saying you can't plan ahead and have several different options within that time period? Are you saying the guy choosing 9th will have that much of an effect that you can't decide on who to take amongst your 3-4 possibilities?

It's your call on whether to participate or not. We're just trying to accurate answer your concerns based on our experience with past drafts.

Leaderboard Sports · Post by **Leaderboard Sports** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:15 am

If time is your only concern I wouldn't be. Like has been said it takes quite a while for the draft facilitators to find the player among the hundreds of name tags, then put the names up. You actually get two minutes a lot of times.

I did a draft last year with even less time 30 seconds, and no one missed a draft pick by getting whistle bit. They count down the last 10 seconds or so. Hope you change your mind and join the fun.

papercutsuicide · Post by **papercutsuicide** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:52 am

Originally posted by LB Big Richards:

OK, now you're trying to make this complicated when it doesn't have to be. Just take it from us experienced draft participants, time hasn't and won't be an issue.

Say you're picking 8th. This gives you another 15 picks - roughly 15-20 minutes - before your next draftee. Are you saying you can't plan ahead and have several different options within that time period? Are you saying the guy choosing 9th will have that much of an effect that you can't decide on who to take amongst your 3-4 possibilities?

It's your call on whether to participate or not. We're just trying to accurate answer your concerns based on our experience with past drafts. I'm saying that what happens is that there are a few times during the course of the draft where the guy you had your heart on, the guy you've been waiting to take for those 15-20 minutes, is taken by the GM picking right in front of you. You may have option 2/3/4, but if those options are more or less tied, I'd like to have more than 60 seconds to think about it. Most of the time, it is clear who you will pick on your turn. Sometimes, it's not; that's all I'm saying. Surely you've been in a situation before where it would've been nice to have more time to make your selection, haven't you?

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:14 am

I agree with Paperboy's claim that having a #1 pick is better than having a #15 pick. If I get anything other than the #1 pick, I'd be more than willing to trade draft slots with the owner who had #1. No question about it. This cannot be disputed.

In addition, if you can't handle the 1 minute time maximum per pick, then you are what we call Dead Money. It's best you don't participate in the draft.

Are you participating in the auction? Hmmmm....

a · Post by a » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:47 pm

Originally posted by papercutsuicide:

thanks, you've given another argument against (the fact that there is a second draft for a second type of competition scheduled after the 1st).

oh well, I guess that means that I won't be playing then. The smartest thing you have said to date.

a · Post by a » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:52 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

I agree with Paperboy's claim that having a #1 pick is better than having a #15 pick. If I get anything other than the #1 pick, I'd be more than willing to trade draft slots with the owner who had #1. No question about it. This cannot be disputed.

In addition, if you can't handle the 1 minute time maximum per pick, then you are what we call Dead Money. It's best you don't participate in the draft.

Are you participating in the auction? Hmmmm.... Dang Gordon, not stalking you or anything....

But it is proven that having the #1 pick is not an advantage. Actaully picks 4-6 have a definate advantage. I am hoping for #5 myself. But winning comes down to rounds 6-25, not just one pick.

I do agree with you, this dud is dead money and WAY OUT OF HIS LEAGUE. He is just trying to sound like a hot shot on the boards and act like a big man. He has proven himself otherwise.

[ February 17, 2004, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Vega$ Gambler$ ]

seefer · Post by **seefer** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:30 pm

60 seconds is more than enough time to make a pick! Heck, if Nicolas Cage and Angelina Jolie can break into a car, have sex in it, and steal it and be "Gone in 60 Seconds" you should be able to say a baseball player's name...even if it is the infamous, underrated, and always overlooked on H.O.F. ballots, the one and only Razor Shines!!!

Seriously though, I did the WCOFB last year and there was only 1 tool in our draft of 15 teams who was skipped because he used more than a minute... and he happened to be the same guy that cut Roy Halladay after 5 weeks of the season!

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:32 pm

Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:

Dang Gordon, not stalking you or anything....

But it is proven that having the #1 pick is not an advantage. Actaully picks 4-6 have a definate advantage. I am hoping for #5 myself. But winning comes down to rounds 6-25, not just one pick. If I had 20 teams (one in each league) all with the #1 pick, I'd win this thing without a problem. The same can't be said if you have the 5th pick in the draft. I would trade the 5th slot for the #1 slot every time. You are crazy if you don't. Also, I wouldn't take AROD#1. Yank Stadium will chop off 10 hrs and his SB well is gonna run dry.

Hopefully I'll get the 1st pick and you'll get the 5th. Then we can see who comes out ahead, Gekko vs Gambler

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:14 pm

The other consideration is that if you somehow miss your pick and you're frozen like a deer in the headlights.. the only penalty is some other owner gets to pick 1 ahead of you and then the draft comes back to you. So, go ahead and take your 2 minutes and suffer the modest penalty in some specific round that you might get pick #186 instead of your 'regular' pick #185.

I doubt this will impact your draft in any large fashion - but if the concept of a time limit and 'only a minute' freaks you out then just stay home and knit. Most knitting contests don't have time limits.

I'd like a blue scarf if you've got the extra time?

Thanks,

Dyv

a · Post by a » Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:33 am

Gordon, The EXACT SAME THING was said about 2002 major football event. There was a huge discussion about the "Faulk Factor" (actually coined that way) and how unfair it was that the #1 pick will win each league. Guess what, on draft day, 50 owners can be heard "With the first pick... Marshall Faulk". Lenny even offered a signed football is someone did not pick Marshall #1 overall. Not one person bit. Fast forward 11 weeks. Do you realize that only 5 #1 picks made it to the championship round. After all the BS talk of the "unfair advantage" of picking #1, it was a factor, a negative one.

I really hope you get the #1 pick, because it will not be as easy as you might think.

btw- if I get 14 people together and create 20 leagues (NFBC rules) and give you the #1 spot in each, would you do it? It sounds like a challange that Leaderboards Sports would love to take you up on. Many of us are on this board already, I'm sure they would mind doing another several leagues.

And yes, I would love #5 this year.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:59 am

Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:

Gordon, The EXACT SAME THING was said about 2002 major football event. If we were talking football, you may have a small point. BTW, it's nice you pick a year where Faulk got hurt. For all intensive purposes...Next!

Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:

I really hope you get the #1 pick, because it will not be as easy as you might think. Pure lunacy!

Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:

btw- if I get 14 people together and create 20 leagues (NFBC rules) and give you the #1 spot in each, would you do it? It sounds like a challange that Leaderboards Sports would love to take you up on. Many of us are on this board already, I'm sure they would mind doing another several leagues. Something like that will never happen. Too many people involved. It would have to be high stakes as well. Money motivates me, not pride.

Maybe Greg can get some sort of "so-called expert" league going. You and your LB buddies vs Gekko. We could find out who is the real expert.