2006 3rd place prize money

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:01 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

But I do know that my first order of business is to increase second place league prizes to $2,500 and third place to $1,000 and then increase the overall 2nd through 10th higher. It might be $125,000 for the grand prize in 2006 with bigger league prizes and better overall prizes. That's the goal. greg,

i don't think many (if any) current/future NFBC owners look at 3rd place league money as a decision point to join your league or not.

personally, i would get rid of 3rd place league money, but i know you won't go that route. BUT, please ohhhh please don't increase the 3rd place league money to $1000 BEFORE increasing overall 2nd through 10th or even the GP. let's reward the better overall finishers before rewarding the 3rd best team in each league. thanks.

[ February 23, 2005, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:05 am

Agree 100% with Gordon on this one. As I have said many times, we are all playing to win our leagues and HOPING everything breaks right for a top overall finish. If an owner should fall just short of winning their league, a nice consolation prize is warranted. But falling just short of just falling short? Maybe it's my competitive nature, but I don't understand why 3rd place in a league is worth any sort of substantial prize.

As for grand prizes, I think there's a big difference between finishing 3rd out of 15 teams and 3rd out of 300 teams. I believe most of us would say that the $100,000 is the real attraction to this contest. In football, it was a real blow for us to fall just short of winning the $100,000, as the falloff from the grand prize to 3rd overall was rather substantial. 2nd, 3rd and 4th overall is a huge accomplishment, and needs to be awarded appropriately.

Echoing Gordon's suggestion, I would award the extra money from increased participation in the following manner:

(1) 2nd through 10th overall prizes

(2) 1st overall grand prize

(3) 2nd place league finishers

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:06 am

There are a lot of things that can go wrong in a season. More teams managing their teams till the very end makes the competition that much greater. Last season I was near the bottom of my league at the All Star Break. I managed my team to try to at least make it into a money position. I fell short by a few points. That said, I like the idea of a decent 3rd place league prize. There are 15 teams in each league, not the 12 (or worse yet 10) in many of the local leagues. Finishing 3rd in a group of "experts" willing to pony up at least $1250 deserves around $1000.

Just my opinion. If I come in first overall I'll feel bad for not voting to have only one prize and only one winner.

Pete

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:12 am

To help clarify my previous post.... I think a decent 3rd place prize is needed mainly to keep people competitively managing their teams. In a LONG baseball season we have all seen people that stop doing waiver and lineup moves beacuse they had a bad draft or bad luck. If you stop paying out a 3rd place prize you will see even more of the same.

Just an opinion. I too would love to win more money for 2nd overall; but feel that the individual leagues will be more competitive if there is a "nice" 3rd place prize. We're talking about still "losing" when you compare it to the entry fee.

Pete

[ February 23, 2005, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Top Dawg ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:17 am

Originally posted by Top Dawg:

To help clarify my previous post.... I think a decent 3rd place prize is needed mainly to keep people competitively managing their teams. pete,

you will have deadbeat owners no matter what you do. having a 3rd place league prize of $500 or $750 or $1000 is all the same to me. i won't try any harder or any less.

JAR · Post by **JAR** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:19 am

IMO.. 3rd place should either be 0.. or at the VERY least your $1250 buy in back. Anything less than that and you might as well just add it to something else.

Just my two cents...

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:23 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

having a 3rd place league prize of $500 or $750 or $1000 is all the same to me. i won't try any harder or any less. Exactly. The competitiveness of the league does not change with the increased third prize. If you could take that extra $500 per league (instead of going from $500 to $1000) and apply it to the overall prizes, you've got AT LEAST an extra $10K to $15K to award the teams who really accomplished something--a top overall finish.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:25 am

Originally posted by JAR:

IMO.. 3rd place should either be 0.. or at the VERY least your $1250 buy in back. Anything less than that and you might as well just add it to something else.

Just my two cents... Also a good point. Going from $500 to $1000 adds nothing to the contest. I don't like the $1250 3rd prize, but at least that would make some sense.

Heffer · Post by **Heffer** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:27 am

I think that if you come in third in a 15 team league $ 1250 is more than fair. You could miss first or second by the slightest of margins it would hurt to get zero for your efforts.

nydownunder · Post by **nydownunder** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:34 am

There are certainly Pros and Cons to adding to the 3rd place winnings, but I think 3 questions lead you to one answer:

1) Do you want as many people in the league to remain competitive? (Keep in mind, if they don't that will more than likely increase that leagues leader to also win the overall.)

2) If you win your leagues, is a couple $100 less than what you could have won going to stop you from joining next year?

3) Will the chances of your wife banning you from all further NFBC's increase based on the lower the amount of winnings you have at the end of the year (ie cover your expenses)? (You laugh, but I am sure there are a lot of people in this draft that had to convince their wives', with 3-4 children, that you're going to spend 2.5-5% of their disposable income on some silly game - I for one am not one of them.)

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:38 am

I understand the opinions given about eliminating or reducing 3rd in each league. Maybe it does not keep more teams managing their squads... Still, I have no scientific proof of this, but my instincts tell me that the more people that get a check back at the end of the year, the more people that will be there the next year.

Finishing top 10 out of 300 is amazing. But face it, if there were NO LEAGUE prizes, only top 10 overall, I don't think we would have had as many returning customers. That is taking my point to an extreme; I realize that. However, eliminating 3rd place completely will, I feel, do the same to a lesser extent.

I'm sure these people like the idea of return customers. I'll be curious to see if before you know it there is even a 4th place prize for each league.

PittIsIt95 · Post by **PittIsIt95** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:55 am

You would lose too many owners and not get new ownership if you don't pay out at least the top 3. If you win your league, that means you are in the running for the big prize anyway so why only pay out 40 people when you could pay out 60.

Totally agree with increasing 3rd to match the buyin. Being competitive in your league is first and foremost. Everyone has there hopes on the big prize, but ultimately an owner goes home happy if they broke at least even on the event buyin.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:36 am

people that want 3rd place league money or even want 4th or 5th in a league to pay money are really dead money. i venture to guess that the NFBC loyalty factor is less with the proponents of a pay 3rd place and beyond mentality.

some people seem to be gunning for third in their leagues.

we have a lot of numbers people in this event. can someone tally up all the bloats who like 3rd place league money and compare their end of season ranking with the people who don't like 3rd place league money. i have a feeling i know what the data will show. thanks.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:37 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

I don't like the $1250 3rd prize, but at least that would make some sense. it still makes no sense KoQ

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:38 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:

I don't like the $1250 3rd prize, but at least that would make some sense. it still makes no sense KoQ [/QUOTE]I should have said MORE sense. An increase from 0% to 1% is something.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:10 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

people that want 3rd place league money or even want 4th or 5th in a league to pay money are really dead money. i venture to guess that the NFBC loyalty factor is less with the proponents of a pay 3rd place and beyond mentality.

some people seem to be gunning for third in their leagues.

we have a lot of numbers people in this event. can someone tally up all the bloats who like 3rd place league money and compare their end of season ranking with the people who don't like 3rd place league money. i have a feeling i know what the data will show. thanks. I hate chasing you all over these boards. We will have over 75 percent retention from last year to this year. Reducing or eliminating third place league prize money doesn't seem to be the answer to increase repeat business above 75 percent. In fact, several owners have asked me to make $1,250 the minimum for third place. I'm not sure we need to do that, but I do want all of the league payouts to keep everyone involved all year long.

Besides, last year you would have gladly taken third place money.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:11 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

having a 3rd place league prize of $500 or $750 or $1000 is all the same to me. i won't try any harder or any less. Exactly. The competitiveness of the league does not change with the increased third prize. If you could take that extra $500 per league (instead of going from $500 to $1000) and apply it to the overall prizes, you've got AT LEAST an extra $10K to $15K to award the teams who really accomplished something--a top overall finish. [/QUOTE]I like this as $500 is not taxed. $$600+ is. The top 10 overall should be more rewarded.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:14 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

people that want 3rd place league money or even want 4th or 5th in a league to pay money are really dead money. i venture to guess that the NFBC loyalty factor is less with the proponents of a pay 3rd place and beyond mentality.

some people seem to be gunning for third in their leagues.

we have a lot of numbers people in this event. can someone tally up all the bloats who like 3rd place league money and compare their end of season ranking with the people who don't like 3rd place league money. i have a feeling i know what the data will show. thanks. I hate chasing you all over these boards. We will have over 75 percent retention from last year to this year. Reducing or eliminating third place league prize money doesn't seem to be the answer to increase repeat business above 75 percent. In fact, several owners have asked me to make $1,250 the minimum for third place. I'm not sure we need to do that, but I do want all of the league payouts to keep everyone involved all year long.

Besides, last year you would have gladly taken third place money.

[/QUOTE]Where did he finish last year Greg?

I'm curious, as I want to know how much of his FB $100K he head to reinvest to try and win baseball with help from others. He calls it diversification.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:29 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Reducing or eliminating third place league prize money doesn't seem to be the answer to increase repeat business above 75 percent. i realize you won't eliminate and probably won't reduce 3rd place leage money. i'm just against ADDING additional funds to 3rd place league money.

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Besides, last year you would have gladly taken third place money.

don't go giving away my secrets.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:45 am

[/qb][/QUOTE]I like this as $500 is not taxed. $$600+ is. The top 10 overall should be more rewarded. [/QB][/quote]

I'd suggest acounting 101. You payed $1250 to enter. You could win $1250 plus whatever other expenses you had and not pay a dime.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:32 pm

Originally posted by PittIsIt95:

You would lose too many owners and not get new ownership if you don't pay out at least the top 3. If you win your league, that means you are in the running for the big prize anyway so why only pay out 40 people when you could pay out 60.

Totally agree with increasing 3rd to match the buyin. Being competitive in your league is first and foremost. Everyone has there hopes on the big prize, but ultimately an owner goes home happy if they broke at least even on the event buyin. Truly? You know someone who wouldn't play if 3rd place money was $0 and league 1st place and 2nd were higher?

I can't find that person...