Fanball

[DOUGHBOYS]

Originally posted by Richie:

obviously, you do not run anything. i have no idea what you do for a living, but my guess it is not in management. If you were in management, you would realize that nothing works perfect out of the box. No matter what it is, large or small, huge budget or no budget. Lets use Apple Computer or Microsoft. When did their launches go perfect. as a matter of fact, never. and some of their budgets were half a billion dollars and they had years to prepare. I remember the Bill Gates introduction of some new software, maybe Windows Xp or the like, where he was on a press conference stage and it did not work at all. Iphone had many problems at the beginning including not enough broadband or the like. Get real. Move to the real world and congratulate the staff for making it 90% in 3 days. A Miracle You're right. I do not Manage a company or run anything.

I am Joe Customer. Along with a lot of other Joe Customer's, I know I am not having a pleasant experience.



Usually at this time of year, we are basking in the beginning of baseball season. Hardly a thread has been started about real baseball because this problem with Fanball has overridden our enjoyment.



I don't care about Microsoft and Apple and the problems they had. I want a game that I have been playing for years, to simply work. I don't think that is asking too much.



As far as getting real and moving to the real world; Does this mean we should expect products to fail? I don't.



For 55 years of age, I consider myself real. I don't text, hell, I don't even own a cell phone...but if I did, I would expect it to work.

[headhunters]

i think we all need to scroll back up to gly post about free agent bids not locking at 7pm. i admit- i did not check this last week- but i will this week.

[The Mighty Men]

Originally posted by Jules Winnfield:

And live scoring is still not working. Fanball has become a punchline. Instead of saying "my car is a piece of crap" you can say "my car is fanball'd" or "I just took a Fanball." It's really kind of fun.



Greg, I'm not sure how long your contract is with Fanball, but I leave them and the NFBC and start something on your own. You know we'd all follow you and Tom. Maybe work out something with ESPN or Yahoo to use their back end. Do something, but every hour it is becoming more apparent that Fanball is worthless. Hey, I like this. Last night, Kyle Blanks "fanballed". 0-4, 4K's.

[hermsmeyer]

For 55 years of age, I consider myself real. I don't text, hell, I don't even own a cell phone...but if I did, I would expect it to work. This made me lol.



I'm not interested in piling on, and I'm as frustrated as anyone else, but bringing up MS and Apple is lol worthy as well.



Take Apple. They launched mobile me. It sucked. They admitted it and gave everyone a month free. The iPad didn't ship on time. People were upset. Apple refunded all shipping. If your iPhone goes **** up, even if it is probably your fault, 8 times out of 10 they will give you a new one at one of their stores.



The main difference in all of these examples (with the exception of mobile me, which was an epic debacle - thus the refund) Apple was breaking new ground. They were innovating, and their customer base were the epitome of early adopters. They know and understand beta testing and the problems inherent in software engineering. And they still were liberal with their refunds/replacements/etc.



I can't speak to MS as I don't own one of their products.



The difference is that NFBC/Fanball customers are not early adopters. They are not bleeding edge tech jockeys. They are like Doughboys. They just want basic functionality, and they want it to just work.



[ April 08, 2010, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: hermsmeyer ]

[Gekko]

blanks is gonna fanball himself right back to the minors!

[The Mighty Men]

On Opening Day, Carlos Zambrano "fanballed" the Braves.



Or....in his first major league at bat, Jason Heyward rocketed a Zambrano "fanball" out of the stadium at 110 mph.

[Red Sox Nation]

Agree 100% with Dough's original post. I'm not one to complain but I'm fed up with this product. If it wasn't for Greg, Tom, and Geoff busting their tails to try fix this I'd be blasting this company all over the boards. I also do find myself following a league and website that I have $150 invested (local league) versus the 8K investment and 9 leagues I have here at Fanball. I don't trust my stats and I don't trust that anything is accurate.



My latest surprise - I check my live scoring and a guy I have had on the bench is now starting????



I hope Fanball can cut the VIP parties and use their budget for some Overtime for the programmers to perfect this website NOW. It's just amazing to me that Fanball decided to test the website on us rather than make it perfect for day 1.



Jason

[Glenneration X]

Interesting thread....I think a couple things need to be said.



Mark, though I know you've been beating the drums about the back end for a while now, you've not been alone. Others have expressed their concern as seen on the attached thread way back in December (amongst others), especially from those who've had a previous history with Fanball, myself included.



http://nfbcboards.fanball.com/cgi-bin/u ... 684#000005



You'll see in this thread that Greg mentioned that launching any commissioner product will come with some issues at first. I think without question, we are all in agreement that Fanball did not meet their or our hopes of having the back end in perfect working order by the start of the season. In fact, it's nowhere near where we want or need it to be.



Still, I think the backlash towards Richie's post has been overly harsh & unfair. His comments are true. Whenever a new tech product is launched, and as warned by Greg, there's often bugs to be worked out. To expect Fanball to be able to achieve what Microsoft or Apple or any other multi-billion dollar high tech company has not been able to....to launch a new product that runs perfectly off the bat....is unrealistic.



This doesn't mean I don't agree that the depth of the issues faced are greater than any of us could have imagined. For the most part, I've tried to keep a positive face to my posts when commenting on these issues. As each day passes, it does become more difficult. However, for the most part I remain positive and optimistic.



The reason is I don't believe that the status quo will be accepted by those who run this contest. I don't believe that even getting the back end "functional" is the goal. One thing I've learned in my brief history with this contest is that they intend & want to be the best in every aspect.

As a previous user of several Fanball products, I don't believe Fanball itself had this ambition in the past. I do believe they've adopted this attitude while recreating this contest, and I believe its been forced upon them by Greg & Tom. Fanball has tried to achieve this in their new contest offerings, their live events, their new website, their new draft software and various other aspects of their contest with varying degrees of success. I think we can all agree that for the most part, they've improved these aspects of the game. Yet they continue to try to improve them further.

I believe even after they get FAAB & the back end right, they will continue to try to improve it until they are considered not just "functional", but an industry leader.



That attitude is not something that just comes about, you either have it or you don't. We all know Greg has it & Tom has it, believe it or not when I met Ryan, I left believing he had it too. I hope I'm right.



Glenn



[ April 08, 2010, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: Glenneration X ]

[Gekko]

glenn - i'm sorry, but i disagree. i've had extensive programming experience in my education.



the code to process faab, is an assignment my college prof would give us overnight to do. this includes coding and testing.



heck, that was 15 years ago. NOW, it's probably a high school level assignment.



that is why coding faab is NO WHERE NEAR AS COMPLEX AS ANYTHING MICROSOFT OR APPLE DOES. PLEASE.

[JohnP]

Ryan speaks (back in February)



Ryan E. Houston

Administrator

Member # 61307



Member Rated:



posted February 14, 2010 10:46 AM

________________________________________

Keep 'em coming.



Nothing is off-limits (aside from my family).



Looking forward to Tuesday and discussing all of this - with all of you.



Thanks.







Ryan E. Houston

Administrator

Member # 61307



Member Rated:



posted February 16, 2010 03:44 PM

________________________________________

quote:

________________________________________

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

I am not alone in being antsy about switching to Fanball software for drafting. Seeing glitches on different pages already, leaves me leary of the draft site.

Alleviate my fears.

________________________________________

I completely understand your concern.



All I can tell you is we are actively working on getting everything ready and I'm sure it will exceed your expectations.



Ryan E. Houston

Administrator

Member # 61307



Member Rated:



posted February 16, 2010 04:03 PM

________________________________________



Ok -- FAAB. Huge deal -- I know it's the #1 priority in rectifying. With Greg / Geoff / Tom running that portion of design, I'm sure we'll fix that.



I know we can do better and we will strive to make it the best experience. If not the best -- I know we can do a lot better then we did last year.



Ryan E. Houston

Administrator

Member # 61307



Member Rated:



posted February 16, 2010 07:55 PM

________________________________________

quote:

________________________________________

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

In football, why can't the free agent time be on the weekend?

________________________________________

I've never played in a league with FAAB available on the weekend.



I've played in leagues where you have open transactions after the mid-week FAAB period but that's not going to work in this game concept.



At this point, I think our FAAB process is very solid in all our events.



Ryan E. Houston

Administrator

Member # 61307



Member Rated:



posted February 16, 2010 08:14 PM

________________________________________

quote:

________________________________________

________________________________________

I feel like I'm in a great position. Fanball has allowed me to grow as a professional and given me the opportunity to do things I never thought possible. I like challenges and right now I'm focusing a lot of my energy into making sure NFBC is the best live fantasy baseball event in 2010. I never know what the future holds but I can assure you that March 2010 is going to be a banner year for NFBC and the entire NFBC family.



Ryan E. Houston

Administrator

Member # 61307



Member Rated:



posted February 16, 2010 09:36 PM

________________________________________

quote:

________________________________________

Originally posted by Gekko:

Ryan - Are there enough Fanball servers to keep the NFBC from experiencing any downtime, esp on FAAB Sunday?

________________________________________Definitely.

[Richie]

Gekko is making himself to be an expert on programming time needed, such as overnight, but he can't spell the word nowhere? Something is wrong with that. It is not no where, 2 words, its one.



All I know is that if Gekko coded a computer program to look for "some where", and it should have said "somewhere", it would not work. Yet he tells us overnight. Wow



[ April 08, 2010, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: Richie ]

[Gekko]

Originally posted by Richie:

Gekko is making himself to be an expert on programming time needed, such as overnight, but he can't spell the word nowhere? Something is wrong with that. It is no no where, 2 words, its one.



All I know is that if Gekko coded a computer program to look for "some where", and it should have said "somewhere", it would not work. Yet he tells us overnight. Wow seeing how i'm typing with my left hand and holding my baby in my right hand, i wouldn't be surprised if half my words aren't spelled correctly.



back to the point...when someone can't defend his position he turns into an english teacher and does a spell check. Checkmate!

[Greg Ambrosius]

We've turned the Romans against the Romans. I'm so embarrassed by all of this. Please, kill the Lions again. We deserve it. Fellow Romans, hold your swords!!



I'm not sure this is what Dan had intended with this thread, or maybe he did. Was this just a bait to let Gekko go off again? Or just hoping this is the final blow for Fanball? I'm not sure, but GG has definitely taken the bait. In the meantime, thankfully there are still baseball games tonight.

[DOUGHBOYS]

No, this isn't what was intended.

This thread was begun because of a pm I got from a loyal customer for many years who is feeling the disappointment that I am now.

No motive other to show that not only new customers are disappointed, but old ones as well.

I'm sorry if you think I have diabolical motives, Greg.

There are none. Just sheer disappointment.

[Gekko]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

We've turned the Romans against the Romans. I'm so embarrassed by all of this. Please, kill the Lions again. We deserve it. Fellow Romans, hold your swords!!



I'm not sure this is what Dan had intended with this thread, or maybe he did. Was this just a bait to let Gekko go off again? Or just hoping this is the final blow for Fanball? I'm not sure, but GG has definitely taken the bait. In the meantime, thankfully there are still baseball games tonight. greg - i don;t have access to the MB during the day (imagine if i did). i have limited time and need to do quick posting as time permits. to be honest, i haven't had ANY time to check league standings, overall standings, etc... i hope to get time this weekend, but i also need to get taxes done.



btw, dan pm'd me and said he was getting his fishing rod out before he started this thread.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

We've turned the Romans against the Romans. I'm so embarrassed by all of this. Please, kill the Lions again. We deserve it. Fellow Romans, hold your swords!!



I'm not sure this is what Dan had intended with this thread, or maybe he did. Was this just a bait to let Gekko go off again? Or just hoping this is the final blow for Fanball? I'm not sure, but GG has definitely taken the bait. In the meantime, thankfully there are still baseball games tonight. greg - i don;t have access to the MB during the day (imagine if i did). i have limited time and need to do quick posting as time permits. to be honest, i haven't had ANY time to check league standings, overall standings, etc... i hope to get time this weekend, but i also need to get taxes done.



btw, dan pm'd me and said he was getting his fishing rod out before he started this thread. [/QUOTE]Mark, how can you be so critical without looking at league standings, team pages, etc. I think while everyone is trying to improve every aspect of the site and emailing improvements, you're focusing on Sunday's FAAB re-run, which we've admitted mistakes to. And the standings on Wednesday weren't calculated correctly, which were corrected and ran perfectly today. Heck, I admit every mistake, but thankfully folks like KJ are helping to make every part of the site better. That's where I thought our discussion was headed today until this became more of a focus.



I know kids well. Your daughter must be feeling the tension of dad. I bet she's crying and crying right now.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

No, this isn't what was intended.

This thread was begun because of a pm I got from a loyal customer for many years who is feeling the disappointment that I am now.

No motive other to show that not only new customers are disappointed, but old ones as well.

I'm sorry if you think I have diabolical motives, Greg.

There are none. Just sheer disappointment. I'm not sure what we did today that brought out your sheer disappointment. Not telling you folks that we were updating Live Scoring made us look like Live Scoring wasn't working today when in fact we were improving it. Our bad.



STandings and stats ran as planned this morning. I would think yesterday was the day for the sheer disappointment post because I felt it too, but maybe we let you down today and I'm acting like I don't see it.



You're a definite leader on the boards. You knew where this was going to head. But it's all fair. I want you to look forward to starting each day with a look at the team pages, league standings and overall standings, just like you've done since 2005. If I let you down there in future days, then we'll both feel sheer disappointment Dan.

[Gekko]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Mark, how can you be so critical without looking at league standings, team pages, etc. I think while everyone is trying to improve every aspect of the site and emailing improvements, you're focusing on Sunday's FAAB re-run, which we've admitted mistakes to. And the standings on Wednesday weren't calculated correctly, which were corrected and ran perfectly today. Heck, I admit every mistake, but thankfully folks like KJ are helping to make every part of the site better. That's where I thought our discussion was headed today until this became more of a focus.

greg - if this is any consolation for you, these boards would be a bloodbath if you weren't here picking up the pieces for the fanball programming group.



here's too better days ahead

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Mark, how can you be so critical without looking at league standings, team pages, etc. I think while everyone is trying to improve every aspect of the site and emailing improvements, you're focusing on Sunday's FAAB re-run, which we've admitted mistakes to. And the standings on Wednesday weren't calculated correctly, which were corrected and ran perfectly today. Heck, I admit every mistake, but thankfully folks like KJ are helping to make every part of the site better. That's where I thought our discussion was headed today until this became more of a focus.

greg - if this is any consolation for you, these boards would be a bloodbath if you weren't here picking up the pieces for the fanball programming group.



here's too better days ahead [/QUOTE]You spelled "to" wrong. Put the baby down.



All I want is for the NFBC boards to be back to talking about the leaders and last night's games, etc. We thought we were there on Sunday night. I was proud. You were complimenting us. We -- sorry the French -- f'd it up on Monday. But we worked incredibly hard to right the ship and then we displayed the standings wrong. We are our own worst enemy.



I was supposed to take a few days off this week before diving into football. Now I'm back to staying on these boards for 14 hours and I need to make sure football isn't lost. There is no consolation in any of this. Just steady "hands on" going forward so that you guys know I'm fighting as hard as I can to get all of this done. That's the frustrating part: I'M ON YOUR SIDE. WE'RE FIGHTING FOR YOU. We're doing all we can to get this right.

[Gekko]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

You spelled "to" wrong. Put the baby down.



All I want is for the NFBC boards to be back to talking about the leaders and last night's games, etc. We thought we were there on Sunday night. I was proud. You were complimenting us. We -- sorry the French -- f'd it up on Monday. But we worked incredibly hard to right the ship and then we displayed the standings wrong. We are our own worst enemy.



I was supposed to take a few days off this week before diving into football. Now I'm back to staying on these boards for 14 hours and I need to make sure football isn't lost. There is no consolation in any of this. Just steady "hands on" going forward so that you guys know I'm fighting as hard as I can to get all of this done. That's the frustrating part: I'M ON YOUR SIDE. WE'RE FIGHTING FOR YOU. We're doing all we can to get this right. assuming faab runs perfectly this weekend (hopefully by 9pm), i (along with everyone else) will have that extra 10 hours to talk fantasy baseball.

[Glenneration X]

Originally posted by Gekko:

glenn - i'm sorry, but i disagree. i've had extensive programming experience in my education.



the code to process faab, is an assignment my college prof would give us overnight to do. this includes coding and testing.



heck, that was 15 years ago. NOW, it's probably a high school level assignment.



that is why coding faab is NO WHERE NEAR AS COMPLEX AS ANYTHING MICROSOFT OR APPLE DOES. PLEASE. Mark, I think you missed the main point I was trying to make in my post.



I do not have a programming education....but I do know how to use a computer, I do know how to join a contest, and I do know that there are technical issues with all. It's how those technical issues are dealt with that make all the difference.



I joined just about every contest out there this past year in football. As well as the NFFC, I had teams in the WCOFF, FFPC, FFOC, & AFFL. Not one of these contests didn't have some issue during the course of the season with its FAAB, its back end, or its draft software.



-You yourself complained about the FAAB software at the FFPC & its lack of user friendliness.



-The FAAB software for the WCOFF lent itself to numerous user errors that led to the mistaken drops of players like Drew Brees & Aaron Rodgers amongst many others.



-The FFOC had its draft software crap out and cause an entire night's worth of drafts to go to autodraft.

It also had its set lineup software crap out the hour before gametime.



-The AFFL had issues with its live scoring just about every single week.



-STATS and the NFFC had its issues as well.



I'll tell you the difference between the way the NFFC handled its issues vs. the other contests. The positions of each of the other contests were pretty much...this is the way it is, live with it.

The NFFC on the other hand tried to right every wrong.



While the execution has been spotty, the "desire" to right the wrongs, to make things better, to satisfy every customer is what I see in the NFBC this year as well.

Now there has been many wrongs, no doubt....way too many. Still, what I see is a constant effort to do the right thing, even if it takes longer than we the customer may want, even if it takes longer than it should.

That desire to do right, that desire to provide the best is more important to me as a customer than actually having any particular aspect "functional" at first. This is because I know it will be "functional", but won't stop there. It will be worked on and improved until we are all satisfied, the way STATS was worked on and improved until we were all satisfied (or as close to being satisfied as we can be).



It's not that other contests aren't concerned with their customers, some much more than others obviously. There's just something above and beyond I see here that starts with Greg and filters down to all that I've dealt with in Fanball whether it be Tom or Geoff or Charlie or Seth. That something above & beyond is what convinces me that when all is said and done, I'll be very happy with the product, my current disappointment will soon dissipate, and I'll be left with just an enjoyment of the contest.



Glenn

[rkulaski]

I was fairly confident that FAAB would be all smoothed out by late March/early April. Looking back on November, when Mark expressed some concern, maybe I should've too. I played in the NFBBC and the FAAB for our league was horrible. But I figured since baseball is so much more important to Fanball, since there are so many more paying customers, that the NFBC FAAB would be well taken care of.



I know Greg has said that the programmers are busy still making final fixes and stuff. However, in the near future, I'd like to hear from someone other than Greg, someone closer to the programming team like their manager or supervisor, take some accountibility for all or most of this. Whether it was waiting too long before making FAAB robust enough... or not enough planning or not enough testing or not enough contingencies, or not enough whatever... I'd like to hear someone confess and then tell us as paying customers what will be done in the future to help prevent these issues from occurring again. Mark's point is valid - they had since November to get it right, yet way too much had to be fixed and improved in this last week.



I am still confident that it's going to be a great season to be part of the NFBC, and part of me wants to sweep what has happened in the last week under the rug and forgive and forget. But then I read the last 4 pages of this thread and agree with most of the concerns and disappointment expressed by Doughy and others. I feel if we all don't speak up with at least 1 or 2 posts about this, then that's not good enough... so this is my post.



[ April 08, 2010, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: rkulaski ]

[Scott Boras]

Dan, THANK YOU for this post. I am also a long-time NFBC member who has multiple teams and significant money invested this year. Like all of you, I have been frustrated beyond words with the first week's failures. I felt better this year than any other season with the teams I have drafted and like all of you, I am in constant doubt about the validity of stats, FAAB, and general functionality from day to day. I composed a rough draft post similar to yours but it sounded too negative and angry. Out of respect and genuine admiration for Greg, Tom, and Geoff I decided not to post. I am not as eloquent or concise as yourself. I think everyone in the NFBC agrees on two things: 1) We all LOVE and respect Greg, Tom, and Geoff and appreciate their efforts. 2) Fanball has dropped the ball BIG time. Personally I was caught off-guard because in 5 years with the NFBC, I NEVER once experienced ANY major concern or glitch (other than my strategies and execution ). That's a bold statement and a testament to how competent and special Greg and co. have been (and maybe STATS too). This year I expected more of the same, and invested accordingly. Thus far, we've received more wrong than right. I have faith that Greg will eventually work his magic and make things right, but thank you again, Dan, for the catharsis. The rookies have been most vocal with their displeasure but I knew that the respected veterans were thinking all of the exact same things and holding their position out of respect to Greg. Greg, I'm not in a position to tell you how to run your business but I hope you take a couple of things from this loud and clear. It's obvious that the vast majority think very highly of you and trust you (myself included). I see practically ZERO criticism directed at you. I hope you are able to read these boards and perceive them as the rest of us do. I also hope that the fanball team outside of yourself, Tom, and Geoff care as much as you do. If they do, this will all be a distant memory soon enough. If they don't (and we'll know soon enough), fanball is in a lot of trouble. You have built an outstanding competition that is the highlight of ours every year. I feel like Ryan E and the rest of fanball don't get how important this is and that's the real frustration- how do we get through to them? Profit will increase easily as long as you're running the show and we have a clean and effective interface. Diamond leagues, Rich Gannon dinners, and flashy graphics mean very little to this demographic. If there's one thing that would alleviate my fears (other than correcting and implementing everything), it would be an emphasis on the game itself and the NFBC community. The Bellagio's bling is impressive, but I couldn't care less about ANY of that when expected things like stats and FAAB aren't easy and correct. Perception is reality and the perception is that fanball has (or had) the wrong priorities and was focused on the wrong agendas. I understand wanting to make a statement and go over the top this year, but you already had the right plan and momentum. Fanball acquired something close to perfection. There wasn't that much to upgrade or improve IMHO. Gorgeous graphics in video games can't hide or make up for flawed gameplay. Gorgeous and talented actors and actresses can't hide or make up for terrible plots and bad screenplays. Barry Bonds' talent can't hide or overshadow bad team chemistry or bad defense. I don't need to be "wowed." Greg, Tom, and Geoff's customer service as well as the level of competition has already wowed me out of my money. Substance over style. I can't stress enough that this is not directed at "the good guys who are on our side, G, T, and G". Mr. Houston, these questions and perceptions are directed at you. Wow us with the most efficient, clean, even if downright BORING stats service and interface imaginable. If you can avoid problems on the technical side, your business will grow faster than any celebrity endorsement, or elegant surroundings could ever begin to inspire. Word of mouth may be the most important aspect of growing a business. Please show us you have learned that.

[JamesH]

Great post Scotty. I recently had a discussion with 3 NFBC vets. All of us share in your "style over substance" argument. We could all car less about the Bellagio and would be happy drafting in a dusty room in Downtown Vegas. We'd prefer cheaper accomodations and food than the Bellagio offers. Is it flashy??? Absolutely. Does the fantasy sports demographic give a crap??? I know me and my pals don't. In fact, we'd prefer some place that was cheaper. I really think this shows where E's priorities lie. He was ineffective in managing his IT staff but was sure to bring in NFL vet to sign autographs for $40 a pop. Now he's broken this fine game because his priorities were in the wrong place. Who knows if it will recover? I know my money won't return unless significant improvements are made. And that's a damn shame because one month ago I was as loyal to the NFBC as they get.

[Sebadiah23]

On Friday April 9th, today, my top two memories so far are how my players are playing, and how great the drafts were in Atlantic City and Citifield. While I would have loved for the site to completely work day 1, my happiness doesn't derive from it and honestly right now I'm way past Sunday night and 100% focused on my teams and baseball. Just tell how I fell because I want to be clear that all of this whining doesn't represent me.



-Craig