Silly Little Game Tonight On ESPN at 8 ET

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by ToddZ:

While the historical perspective was fascinating, the fictional portrayals were more farcical than anything and detracted from the legitimacy of the presentation. Todd, had they interviewed you I know John Goodman would have been your fictional portrayal!!

[ToddZ]

I'd prefer George Wendt.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by ToddZ:

I'd prefer George Wendt. Very good call.

[ToddZ]

Though since it was ESPN, they may have saved a few bucks and used John Kruk.

[Thunder]

imho..i thought it was very informative. most of us have been in the game for twenty years, in one way or another.



i can see an outsider looking in tonight wondering just where the heck the idea came from, and still having no idea what or where it is today.

[Tom Kessenich]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

YOu wouldn't beieve how many people these guys interviewed in the industry and for how many hours. Ask anyone who went to Shandler's Arizona Fall League Symposium the last two years or an FSTA convention or a high-stakes event. They had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of tape from folks talking about the industry and didn't use any of it. I'm fairly certain the 30 minutes they spent interviewing me at the NFFC will be part of the director's edition DVD.







Color me unimpressed with the documentary. Nice to see some of our NFFC/NFBC folks get some face time but I thought the filmmakers really dropped the ball. The reenactments in particular were real lame.

[Geoffrey Stein]

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

YOu wouldn't beieve how many people these guys interviewed in the industry and for how many hours. Ask anyone who went to Shandler's Arizona Fall League Symposium the last two years or an FSTA convention or a high-stakes event. They had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of tape from folks talking about the industry and didn't use any of it. I'm fairly certain the 30 minutes they spent interviewing me at the NFFC will be part of the director's edition DVD.







[/QUOTE]I've heard that they're working on getting Brad Pitt for the Tom Kessenich interview reenactment.

[GOD Loves You]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:



Matt Berry is right, though: These guys should be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. They hit a home run with this idea. Not only should they be in the HOF, they should have reaped the monetary benefits from creating an obsession for millions.

[GOD Loves You]

Originally posted by ToddZ:

While the historical perspective was fascinating, the fictional portrayals were more farcical than anything and detracted from the legitimacy of the presentation. Agree. The background interviews were good, but everything else was quite cheesy.



You can tell Adam and Lucas haven't made many movies/documentaries. Other than the history, the show was a disappointment.



It was cool to see a few people I know, as well as Mr. Meatloaf, but I kept waiting for the Rich Gannon appearance.



At least Walla Walla got a chance to get aroused with the Shandler appearance.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:



Matt Berry is right, though: These guys should be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. They hit a home run with this idea. Not only should they be in the HOF, they should have reaped the monetary benefits from creating an obsession for millions. [/QUOTE]How could they have reaped the rewards when by 1994 the Players Associations had already figured out that THEY owned the rights to this game. Think about it, the game was invented in 1980, most of us had changed the name of the game to Fantasy Baseball and Fantasy Football by 1989 and the Founding Fathers had checked out by 1991. By 1994 the MLBPA and NFLPA were already asking game operators for a percentage of their take because they owned the rights of publicity to the players and their stats (so they said).



If you want to reap the rewards, you need to be greedy, like the PAs. These guys didn't have the fortitude or the might to be that greedy -- and of course, they didn't have the rights, nor did the PAs.



That's the beauty of this free country. You can build the mouse trap, but if it's just a mouse trap someone else can build it bigger and better and call it a mouse condo collection kit and be more successful. It's the American Way.

[Tom Kessenich]

I believe the following NFFC participants were interviewed (if I'm missing anyone let me know):



Eddie Gillis

James Mack

Michael Edelman and Sal Cataldo

Julian Curry

Scott Newman's daughter Alexxa



Marc Quitsch was shown early but had no speaking lines. He must not have his SAG card yet.



I spotted some of our NFBC/NFFC participants during the WCOFF footage. Lawr Michaels was shown, Eddie was shown and Greg was briefly spotted at the end.



[ April 21, 2010, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

[GOD Loves You]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:



Matt Berry is right, though: These guys should be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. They hit a home run with this idea. Not only should they be in the HOF, they should have reaped the monetary benefits from creating an obsession for millions. [/QUOTE]How could they have reaped the rewards when by 1994 the Players Associations had already figured out that THEY owned the rights to this game. Think about it, the game was invented in 1980, most of us had changed the name of the game to Fantasy Baseball and Fantasy Football by 1989 and the Founding Fathers had checked out by 1991. By 1994 the MLBPA and NFLPA were already asking game operators for a percentage of their take because they owned the rights of publicity to the players and their stats (so they said).



If you want to reap the rewards, you need to be greedy, like the PAs. These guys didn't have the fortitude or the might to be that greedy -- and of course, they didn't have the rights, nor did the PAs.



That's the beauty of this free country. You can build the mouse trap, but if it's just a mouse trap someone else can build it bigger and better and call it a mouse condo collection kit and be more successful. It's the American Way. [/QUOTE]You have to love how people did change the trademarked name of "Rotisserie" to "Fantasy."



Do you think he could have copyrighted the ratio category he created. I know it was originally IPRAT, but it wasn't used prior to him creating the category, yet it's now common among baseball.



I know the guys didn't set out to get rich, but the idea was so revolutionary, it would be nice to see them rewarded with more than obscurity(Meatloaf's response regarding Dan was great) and a mockumentary.



If I ever met Dan, I would be happy to shake his hand to tell him thank you for giving us NON-NERDS a way to continue competing through sports we grew up playing.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

[qb] You have to love how people did change the trademarked name of "Rotisserie" to "Fantasy."



Do you think he could have copyrighted the ratio category he created. I know it was originally IPRAT, but it wasn't used prior to him creating the category, yet it's now common among baseball.



I know the guys didn't set out to get rich, but the idea was so revolutionary, it would be nice to see them rewarded with more than obscurity(Meatloaf's response regarding Dan was great) and a mockumentary.



If I ever met Dan, I would be happy to shake his hand to tell him thank you for giving us NON-NERDS a way to continue competing through sports we grew up playing. [/QUOTE]Nobody trademarked the term Fantasy Baseball or Fantasy Football. You do not need a TM next to Fantasy, but you do for Rotisserie. And no, I don't think you could trademark WHIP any more than you could trademark ERA or K's.



Have you ever looked up the careers of these guys? Nobody needs to feel sorry for them. Daniel Okrent is one of the most accomplished journalists around. He's written books, he was a top editor at the New York Times, he just wrote the cover piece on Detroit for Time magazine, he's unbelievably successful. I was on Good Morning America with Dan and Charles Gibson in 1994 to talk about the growth of fantasy baseball and he has to be one of the most intelligent person's I've ever met. He's very engaging and very smart, and of course, very opinionated. Glenn is a top editor at ESPN The Magazine and Steve Wulf wrote for Sports Illustrated for decades. All of these guys were top journalists who were successful before Rotisserie Baseball and are still successful.



And remember, they wrote the RLBA book for a good decade and made some money that way. They made some money from their invention, just not as much as the Players Associations did or Ron Shandler did or Greg Ambrosius did or ....

[DOUGHBOYS]

I feared worse when seeing the title.



When my wife saw the title, 'Silly little game' on our dvr list and got the info from it, she thought it should be renamed 'Seriously Big Obsession'. She's right. It is a silly little game to those who do not participate, and a seriously big obsession to those that do.



Do I feel bad about Okrent and others possibly losing out on money?

No.

Like the guy who invented Texas hold-em, he had no way of knowing how it would grow from his day to flouish in the present.



I thought the film blundered with the time spent on re-creations. The 10 minutes could have been spent on where that silly little game has taken us and how quickly and lastingly it has become engrained in our culture.

[Tom Kessenich]

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:





I thought the film blundered with the time spent on re-creations. The 10 minutes could have been spent on where that silly little game has taken us and how quickly and lastingly it has become engrained in our culture. I agree. I also think they blew a golden opportunity to show what a significant impact fantasy sports has made on how we watch sports today. A significant part of the viewing experience has been impacted by fantasy sports. Scrolling tickers, constantly updated stats etc. All of those things have been driven by the fantasy sports industry. Watch an NFL game and much of what you see beyond the plays themselves is a result of what fantasy players are looking for. That's due in large part to the fact the NFL has always had a stronger handle on fantasy than the other major sports.



This was something I talked about extensively with the filmmakers. It's too bad they didn't use any of it. Maybe that will be part of the Brad Pitt reenactment.

[ToddZ]

TK -- I completely agree. It drives me nuts when some people who in large part have a job because of we information-starved fanatics chastise this silly little game.



For those that did not see it, Dan Okrent referred to the hobby as this silly little game in the show, so from a creative angle, it actually works as the title. Though the connotation may not be the greatest.



The one stereotype that I would like to see debunked is not the "nerd" one so much as how all we care about is the stats and our players and are not real fans of the game. They were actually going down that road in a segment, but it was really not a focus got lost in the shuffle.



Having the hobby go so mainstream has helped remove the nerd stigma. It bothers me that the perception remains that some of us are looked at as not as die-hard a pure sports fan as those that do not participate in the silly little game.



The next breakthrough would be a

"numbers guy" as an analyst in the broadcast booth.



Short of that, an "R" rated broadcast on a cable channel would be cool.



And if they want a numbers guy that has an affinity for some salty language on occasion, well, anyway....

[Tom Kessenich]

For me, I'm more interested in seeing the evolution of the industry and how it has significantly impacted major sports as we know them today. While I appreciate the founding fathers I'm less interested in their first draft and have no interest at all in how much they spent on Mike Schmidt. If this was a two-hour or even 90-minute documentary that stuff might have held my interest more. But I thought about 30 minutes (at least) was wasted footage that did little to educate people on how powerful this industry has become.

[rwilton]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

YOu wouldn't beieve how many people these guys interviewed in the industry and for how many hours. Ask anyone who went to Shandler's Arizona Fall League Symposium the last two years or an FSTA convention or a high-stakes event. They had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of tape from folks talking about the industry and didn't use any of it.



It's okay, I'm not sure any of us who were interviewed wanted to see what the actor fill-ins portraying us would look like!! That part was different.



I loved the part when Okrent and Waggoner talked about sending cease and desist orders for companies using the term Rotisserie Baseball and then seeing us sidestep that by calling it Fantasy Baseball. Our 1989 issue was going to be called Rotisserie Baseball Magazine and we got the cease and desist response from the RLBA. I remember telling our publisher, Bob Lemke, let's just call it Fantasy Baseball Magazine. And that's what we did. But Glenn still wrote our opening piece in the magazine and has been a good guy to know since then. Heck, the Founding Fathers were the first inductees into the FSTA's Hall of Fame in 2000 and Glenn came to Orlando to accept the honor.



It was an interesting perspective, but using the actors was -- as they say on American Idol -- "corny." Not bad, an interesting "read" if you will.



Matt Berry is right, though: These guys should be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. They hit a home run with this idea.

[rwilton]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

YOu wouldn't beieve how many people these guys interviewed in the industry and for how many hours. Ask anyone who went to Shandler's Arizona Fall League Symposium the last two years or an FSTA convention or a high-stakes event. They had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of tape from folks talking about the industry and didn't use any of it.

Greg:



Lucas told me there would a lot on various milestones in fantasy baseball. Fantasy Baseball magazine, Benson 800#, The MASH Report, Baseball Forecaster etc. Even stuff on the first AFL conference that I started back in 1994. I skipped dinner and a AFL ballgame just to give Lucas a bunch of tape and a history on information collecting etc. You have to wonder if someone at ESPN cut all that stuff out because ESPN didn't want to be portrayed as a late comer to the game of fantasy baseball.



Rick