What are the pros and cons of allowing pitcher moves on Friday?

Red Sox Nation · Post by **Red Sox Nation** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:21 am

I love the twice a week moves on offense but it's very time consuming. If this change was made for pitchers I would have to reduce my teams drastically. Thursday nights would be awful trying to plan out the whole weekend.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:49 am

Originally posted by Fast Money:

quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:

I'm with Steve. I also play in that other contest that allows two pitcher changes and I enjoy it for that contest.

Still, I prefer the rule in this contest remain how it is so that there is a unique quality to both.

Also in agreement that it is much more time consuming with two pitcher changes per week. I definately would be limited in how many teams I could manage efficiently with that rule for all my teams.

Slightly off topic, I also agree with Joe that the Monday & Thursday set lineup deadlines should be consistent. Either set it for for 6:55pm or 5 minutes prior to the first game, not one for Monday and another for Thursday.

Thanks,

Glenn Hey Glen,

That toggle in the Live scoring you pushed for is great. Now we need to push to have that same toggle for the Set Lineup page. It would be great to toggle from team to team in the same manner when setting lineups.

Just a thought. [/QUOTE]Joe, we already have the set lineup toggle.

Glenn

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:51 am

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

In the end, I don't think pitching changes for weekends would be more beneficial than what we have now. Just more stats.

If I had to vote now, I would vote against twice a week pitchers.

I am with others in cleaning up the timing for Monday and Friday deadlines.

agreed.

however, i would be in favor of allowing owners to switch out any pitchers (on friday) who hadn't pitched Mon-Thu. [/QUOTE]This is a very good idea that would keep the basic format of once a week pitcher changes, but allow for someone to compensate for a Morrow or Wood type situation. Hopefully it can be implemented.

Glenn

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:06 pm

A small loophole would be replacing the reliever, who simply was not used during the first series of the week.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:10 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

A small loophole would be replacing the reliever, who simply was not used during the first series of the week. how is that a loophole? you are still only getting stats from one player...

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:17 pm

The rule would be intended for the Morrow's and Wood's who were not used because of outside influences.

A reliever is not used because of an on-field decision.

A small loophole, but nonetheless a loophole.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:27 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

The rule would be intended for the Morrow's and Wood's who were not used because of outside influences.

A reliever is not used because of an on-field decision.

A small loophole, but nonetheless a loophole. who cares though? if your guy didn't pitch, he didn't pitch. maybe he's battling a slight injury and they are holding him out a few games without DL'ing him? maybe they want to give him extra rest. but again, why does it matter what the reason is?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:31 pm

To me, because it is one of the known risks we take. If we choose Andrew Bailey to pitch and he has a boo boo, too bad for us.

If the Reds make a stupid move of moving Wood to the minors after or around deadline, we should get relief for that.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:35 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

To me, because it is one of the known risks we take. If we choose Andrew Bailey to pitch and he has a boo boo, too bad for us.

If the Reds make a stupid move of moving Wood to the minors after or around deadline, we should get relief for that. there is no "subjective" programming. these have to be viewed the same exact way. and 99.9% of the time there is no way anyone could know on Monday if a RP will NOT pitch over the course of 4 days. maybe he pitches once and gets blown up?

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:36 pm

I'm not a fan of risks out of our control. I'm with Mark on this one.

Glenn

whipsaw · Post by **whipsaw** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:16 pm

I believe both of you have a mistaken view of what is in your control or out of your control.

TRAIN · Post by **TRAIN** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:56 am

I like Mark's proposal as a good compromise that allows pitching changes on Friday only for pitchers in your lineup who have not pitched Monday thru Thursday.

A. This would prevent streaming a pitcher who has two starts but the 1st start is unfavorable.

B. It would also allow for changes to RP who haven't yet pitched this week and now may be non DL injured or lost their role.

C. This rule change would also address the below aforementioned situations that under the current rules are not allowed:

1. If a pitcher was scheduled to start this weekend but that start has now been moved to next week or beyond (Brandon Morrow's scheduled start being changed, or Travis Wood being unexpectedly sent down this week are good examples).

2. If a pitcher has a non DL injury or requires a bereavment / personal leave of absence that forces them to miss their scheduled start

3. If the pitching matchup changes to a more favorable one for one of your benched pitchers, or less favorable one for your starting pitcher.

4. Wanting to adjust your strategy because of how your pitchers performed already Monday thru Thursday in certain categories.

Basically, I think this type of rule change would allow for more flexibility and just make the game more fun. The only problem would be how Fanball would identify those pitchers who have pitched / not pitched Monday thru Thursday. Something like the following might work for the Starting Pitcher lineup on a Friday:

Every Friday, the following code would be executed on the entire pitcher database:

If IP in Week xx = 0, then do not lock that pitcher (this assumes that all bench pitchers would be unlocked whether they have IP or not for that week).

This would make it easy for owners with a lot of teams to just look at their Starting Lineup and see who is locked and not locked and avoid having to research if their starting pitcher has pitched yet that week.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:00 am

Originally posted by luck and skill:

If IP in Week xx = 0, then do not lock that pitcher (this assumes that all bench pitchers would be unlocked whether they have IP or not for that week).

in the real world, this could be programmed. in the fanball world, i'm not so sure. IF it could, it would be a great addition to the NFBC

baggler · Post by **baggler** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:34 am

I'm against the mon and fri lineup changes for pitchers. Right now in many leagues I have to decide whether to start a so-so two start pitcher over a legitmate one start pitcher to catch up in the wins and k's category. Why should I be able to be rewarded of starting a favorable matchup of pitchers and not jeopardize my whip and era.It's much easier to catch up in wins and k's then era and whip. I put myself in a good position with my era and whip to do so. I think ANY fantasy owner can throw in favorable pitching matchups....it's the fantasy owner who can limit their risks and foresee categorical upside that makes them a real good fantasy player.That's my two sense. I'm against the mon-fri lineup changes for pitching as I'm against having Srebro and Jupinka in any of my future leagues.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:30 am

I'd be ok with friday pitcher moves as I've enjoyed those lges this season, but they are more time consuming and would require me to cut down on # of lges.

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:33 am

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by luck and skill:

If IP in Week xx = 0, then do not lock that pitcher (this assumes that all bench pitchers would be unlocked whether they have IP or not for that week).

in the real world, this could be programmed. in the fanball world, i'm not so sure. IF it could, it would be a great addition to the NFBC [/QUOTE]So far this season there have been 330 appearances by a pitcher in a game where they have faced 1 or more batters without recording an out (0.0 IP).

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:49 am

Originally posted by Navel Lint:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by luck and skill:

If IP in Week xx = 0, then do not lock that pitcher (this assumes that all bench pitchers would be unlocked whether they have IP or not for that week).

in the real world, this could be programmed. in the fanball world, i'm not so sure. IF it could, it would be a great addition to the NFBC [/QUOTE]So far this season there have been 330 appearances by a pitcher in a game where they have faced 1 or more batters without recording an out (0.0 IP). [/QUOTE]GREAT point. how about...

If IP AND H AND BB in Week xx = 0, then do not lock that pitcher (this assumes that all bench pitchers would be unlocked whether they have IP or not for that week).

[ August 14, 2010, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Gekko ]

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:20 am

Originally posted by Baggler:

I'm against the mon-fri lineup changes for pitching as I'm against having Srebro and Jupinka in any of my future leagues. Eddie - Yuo are a TOUGH owner!!! I'm doing my best to catch you in the NY Double Play. This week I'm rolling out 5 closers (6 if I pick up another one via FAAB). I'm hoping for a 10 save week and a few more league points

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:08 am

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Navel Lint:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by luck and skill:

If IP in Week xx = 0, then do not lock that pitcher (this assumes that all bench pitchers would be unlocked whether they have IP or not for that week).

in the real world, this could be programmed. in the fanball world, i'm not so sure. IF it could, it would be a great addition to the NFBC [/QUOTE]So far this season there have been 330 appearances by a pitcher in a game where they have faced 1 or more batters without recording an out (0.0 IP). [/QUOTE]GREAT point. how about...

If IP AND H AND BB in Week xx = 0, then do not lock that pitcher (this assumes that all bench pitchers would be unlocked whether they have IP or not for that week). [/QUOTE]I’m not trying to make this harder than it should be

, but even IP/H/BB=0 has happened 9 times this season.

During 5 of the 9 occasions a pitcher hit the only batter he faced.

1 time the pitcher faced 2 batters and they both reached on an error

2 times the pitcher faced 1 batter that reached on an error

1 time the pitcher actually struck out the hitter, but the batter reached first base on a passed ball by the catcher. The pitcher got credit for the K, but didn’t not record an out so no IP.

TRAIN · Post by **TRAIN** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:41 am

Maybe the formula would have to be:

If pitch count in Week xx = 0, then unlock that pitcher (this assumes that all bench pitchers would be unlocked whether they have IP or not for that week).

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:41 am

What if games were included in the stats stream? They may not show up in the stats we get to see, but it can surely be arranged to have that included in the nightly stream from STATS

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:54 am

And FWIW, I see a problem with the 'hasn't pitched until Friday' proposal and that is there is another side to the coin.

You're psyched because you get to remove your guy and salvage an empty roster spot that week.

But say I have the guy that is moved from Monday to Sunday and starts in his place and I don't like the match-up. Maybe you have Johan and would start him in Philly and I have Pelfrey and am scared sheepless to start him. I had him active because he was at home versus Washington on Tuesday and the Mets have Thursday off so he isn't scheduled again until Monday. I can't take him out.

Or perhaps the guy moved into the start is someone I WOULD have started but didn't. I can't move him in unless I also have a guy I can legally take out on Friday.

While I understand the sentiment of the proposal, I lean towards an idea that helps all involved, not just some and this only helps some.

TRAIN · Post by **TRAIN** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:19 pm

It may not benefit every team for each particular week, but over the course of a 26 week season, I would venture to say that almost every team would opt to use and benefit from such a rule change.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:01 pm

Originally posted by ToddZ:

While I understand the sentiment of the proposal, I lean towards an idea that helps all involved, not just some and this only helps some. Todd,

This helps ANY owner who would like to switch out a pitcher who hasn't appeared in a Mon-Thu game. If this rule applies to all owners, why wouldn't it be fair to all owners (as your statement implies)?

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:02 pm

Originally posted by luck and skill:

It may not benefit every team for each particular week, but over the course of a 26 week season, I would venture to say that almost every team would opt to use and benefit from such a rule change. Yes, this would enhance the overall NFBC enjoyment. I'm guessing Travis Wood owners would be a lot happier if they didn't have to take a zero through no fault of their own.