Split Payments

[Spyhunter]

Greg,

Glad to see the payment links up. One thing: RT and I co-managed our team (finally actually cashed with a main event team - just in time before we gave up!!). We need the checks split 50/50, so that I don't take on an extra $1300 in reported income. How do we do this?



Thanks



[ November 05, 2010, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Spyhunter ]

[Red Sox Nation]

Chris,



I'm sure Greg can elaborate on this. The primary owner has to take the full winnings. They cannot be split. I wish this would change as well. Good luck



Jason



[ November 06, 2010, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Red Sox Nation ]

[Asumijet]

I would like to see this changed as well, please. Technology should make this a non-issue.

[Catch]

FANBALL, considering that you do charge a fee for co-managers, you should be able to split the winnings. My partner and I have been CDM/Fanball customers for over 15+ years (Diamond Challenge) and each of us have our own account id number. This would be a great addition to split future winnings. I am sure every single partnership would want this to be implemented.

[Spyhunter]

Originally posted by Red Sox Nation:

Chris,



I'm sure Greg can elaborate on this. The primary owner has to take the full winnings. They cannot be split. I wish this would change as well. Good luck



Jason Greg, please verify/elaborate, this is a serious issue and cause significant tax reporting problems

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Spyhunter:

Greg,

Glad to see the payment links up. One thing: RT and I co-managed our team (finally actually cashed with a main event team - just in time before we gave up!!). We need the checks split 50/50, so that I don't take on an extra $1300 in reported income. How do we do this?



Thanks Chris, the rules for the last seven years have specifically stated how we pay our winners. It is the principle owner who gets paid in full and this has been no different for 7 years. You will be getting paid in full and you and RT will have to settle the rest, including taxes. I know some people think this is an easy split, but it's very specific in our rules and it's how we will be paying prizes this year.



Congrats on your winnings and I'm sure you and RT will figure this part out.

[Head 2 Head]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Spyhunter:

Greg,

Glad to see the payment links up. One thing: RT and I co-managed our team (finally actually cashed with a main event team - just in time before we gave up!!). We need the checks split 50/50, so that I don't take on an extra $1300 in reported income. How do we do this?



Thanks Chris, the rules for the last seven years have specifically stated how we pay our winners. It is the principle owner who gets paid in full and this has been no different for 7 years. You will be getting paid in full and you and RT will have to settle the rest, including taxes. I know some people think this is an easy split, but it's very specific in our rules and it's how we will be paying prizes this year.



Congrats on your winnings and I'm sure you and RT will figure this part out. [/QUOTE]This looks like something many teams would like FANBALL to change in 2011.

[crazytown]

If you split it up enough, no one will have to pay taxes on the money won. Who's to say I didn't have 6 co-owners. Don't think it is happening.

[E]

Originally posted by crazytown:

If you split it up enough, no one will have to pay taxes on the money won. Who's to say I didn't have 6 co-owners. Don't think it is happening. Sorry but this isn't accurate. For simplicity sake, pretend I paid $1,300 and am supposed to get a check for $2,300 (I won $1,000). If I played solo, I would win $1,000. However, if I split it with 10 people, we each would win $100. If I split it with 1,000 people, we each would win $1, etc. There isn't a point where you can make the earnings disappear.



In any event, I also have a fantasy partner. I realize that the rules state that the main person will only get paid. I think that it would be a great upgrade down the road if you can allow winnings to be split (and also allow your partner's name to be shown on the overall standings page).

[Spyhunter]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Spyhunter:

Greg,

Glad to see the payment links up. One thing: RT and I co-managed our team (finally actually cashed with a main event team - just in time before we gave up!!). We need the checks split 50/50, so that I don't take on an extra $1300 in reported income. How do we do this?



Thanks Chris, the rules for the last seven years have specifically stated how we pay our winners. It is the principle owner who gets paid in full and this has been no different for 7 years. You will be getting paid in full and you and RT will have to settle the rest, including taxes. I know some people think this is an easy split, but it's very specific in our rules and it's how we will be paying prizes this year.



Congrats on your winnings and I'm sure you and RT will figure this part out. [/QUOTE]Greg, I guess I didn't notice this sublety in the rules and since I had only won on my non-joint teams previously it hadn't come up before.



This is a pretty serious gap imho, and while it won't matter that much for a mere 2nd place finish, if someone wins a Diamond or main event team there is a serious financial implication, especially if there are different tax rates involved.

[Chest Rockwell]

Originally posted by E:

quote:Originally posted by crazytown:

If you split it up enough, no one will have to pay taxes on the money won. Who's to say I didn't have 6 co-owners. Don't think it is happening. Sorry but this isn't accurate. For simplicity sake, pretend I paid $1,300 and am supposed to get a check for $2,300 (I won $1,000). If I played solo, I would win $1,000. However, if I split it with 10 people, we each would win $100. If I split it with 1,000 people, we each would win $1, etc. There isn't a point where you can make the earnings disappear.



In any event, I also have a fantasy partner. I realize that the rules state that the main person will only get paid. I think that it would be a great upgrade down the road if you can allow winnings to be split (and also allow your partner's name to be shown on the overall standings page). [/QUOTE]But there is a point where fanball would not have to report your income.

[E]

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by E:

quote:Originally posted by crazytown:

If you split it up enough, no one will have to pay taxes on the money won. Who's to say I didn't have 6 co-owners. Don't think it is happening. Sorry but this isn't accurate. For simplicity sake, pretend I paid $1,300 and am supposed to get a check for $2,300 (I won $1,000). If I played solo, I would win $1,000. However, if I split it with 10 people, we each would win $100. If I split it with 1,000 people, we each would win $1, etc. There isn't a point where you can make the earnings disappear.



In any event, I also have a fantasy partner. I realize that the rules state that the main person will only get paid. I think that it would be a great upgrade down the road if you can allow winnings to be split (and also allow your partner's name to be shown on the overall standings page). [/QUOTE]But there is a point where fanball would not have to report your income. [/QUOTE]True-good point. Any idea what dollar amount that is?

[viper]

1099s are required for all misc income over $600. However, they can be filed for any amount if the person filing the 1099s want. By law, you are required to report all income so, even if you received $400 and no 1099 was filed, that income should be reported. The difference is that the IRS can computer match your 1099 income against your 1040. They cannot computer match for amounts not reported in 1099s.

[crazytown]

If Fanball wants to give 1099's for every amount distributed that would be fine. My point was that if you recieve less than 600 and Fanball doesn't provide a 1099 then the Gov. would not now be able to tax that amount unless the recipient reported it themselves.

A lesser concern would be that the amount won placed the taxpayer in a higher tax bracket and then kicking up their %. They could then disperse to another tax payer to keep their % lower.

[Chest Rockwell]

Originally posted by crazytown:

If Fanball wants to give 1099's for every amount distributed that would be fine. My point was that if you recieve less than 600 and Fanball doesn't provide a 1099 then the Gov. would not now be able to tax that amount unless the recipient reported it themselves.

A lesser concern would be that the amount won placed the taxpayer in a higher tax bracket and then kicking up their %. They could then disperse to another tax payer to keep their % lower. I agree but is this not a question for partners to work out before signing up. I know every partner I have had we talk about it. For instance I have no state income taxes and my partners always have had them.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by crazytown:

If Fanball wants to give 1099's for every amount distributed that would be fine. My point was that if you recieve less than 600 and Fanball doesn't provide a 1099 then the Gov. would not now be able to tax that amount unless the recipient reported it themselves.

A lesser concern would be that the amount won placed the taxpayer in a higher tax bracket and then kicking up their %. They could then disperse to another tax payer to keep their % lower. I agree but is this not a question for partners to work out before signing up. I know every partner I have had we talk about it. For instance I have no state income taxes and my partners always have had them. [/QUOTE]Correct Kent. Chris Throop says this is a problem for partners in the Diamond, Main Event, etc. No it's not. The rules state how we're going to pay and everyone who signs up for those events agree to this when they sign up.



Listen, this isn't a technical issue. We could set it up to let you folks split or give different percentages to co-managers and made up co-managers. Legally, paying the principle owner who paid for the entry is the right way to set this up and every contest does it this way. If you want to save on taxes, plan on winning right away and choose the owner who pays the least taxes, as Kent said above. We have enough to worry about fighting to get this game and site and contest right. We can't fight the government over win-shares.

[Sack]

Greg:



The rules were clear for the last seven years to most of us that took on partnerships. Your quick response was appreciated and hopefully became clear to those that may have missed that the principle owner is the only party paid and hence responsible for the taxes.



Reading some of the above posts, it is clear that this should be important enough going forward to at least address the issue? Partnerships certainly help expand these games. With several of your events costing $2500, $5000, and $10,000 to enter, tax consequences for those that finish in the money become more important. Why not give FANBALL the chance to expand these leagues by working with the customers. Heck, only 3 out of every 15 team league cashes.



Reading the above post from my pal 'CATCH"



"FANBALL, considering that you do charge a fee for co-managers, you should be able to split the winnings. My partner and I have been CDM/Fanball customers for over 15+ years (Diamond Challenge) and each of us have our own account id number. This would be a great addition to split future winnings. I am sure every single partnership would want this to be implemented."





Those of us that were fortunate enough to cash this year were told we had to wait in line with for our prize winnings with the rest of the FANBALL customers. Well, if CATCH is correct and Fanball/NFBC customers have individual accounts for payment it seems all to logical that this should be an easy fix going forward. Make this part of the REGISTRATION process in March prior to sitting down to even draft a team. This way Fanball has 6 months of the baseball season to get things in order so that those postseason 4-6 week auditors have all the information to continue to get our checks out in a "timely" fashion.



Handling the tax issue encourages partnerships and increases customers. A win win for both sides.



TOM Z WEST - nice job pal, excellent point.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Sack, I will gladly take this up the chain and ask if we can do it, not only for the NFBC but all Fanball games. Everything we're doing going forward involves all Fanball games, so if we're adding Live Standings for the NFBC, it's being implemented for all Fanball commissioner products. When we pay our prize winners we pay for all Fanball winners, etc. This should be no different.



I think most people realize this is a legal issue involving taxes and the government. I don't think this is as easy as yes or no. But trust me, I'll gladly ask. We aim to please...when/if the lawyers let us.

[Doug Atkins]

If you guys don't want to pay taxes on your winnings, you can just move to Canada. Any gaming or lottery winnings are considered "windfall earnings" in Canada and are non-taxable......I hope you are all jealous.....of course, you would have to put up with all the cold weather.....it's snowing here today......

[Gekko]

guys...talk to a tax advisor or accountant. they will tell you everything you need to know about splitting up the winnings

[Glenneration X]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Legally, paying the principle owner who paid for the entry is the right way to set this up and every contest does it this way. Greg, this statement isn't entirely accurate, though I'm sure it's just an oversight. I have no stake in this debate as I'm not really the co-owner type. However, for the sake of others that do, I'd like to point out that there's at least one other major contest that allows prize splitting amongst co-owners.

The way they have it set up, and limited, probably addresses some of the concerns brought up earlier in this thread. If Fanball can mimic this precedent, I'm sure many will benefit.



Copied & pasted from their rules in quotes below(I've left out the name of the contest out of respect for both this contest and theirs):



"Prize splitting amongst principal participant and their co-managers is now available. The principal participant will always remain the sole legal prize winner and MUST authorize payment to his co-manager in writing. The principal participant will fill out and sign the authorization form indicating the name & address of his co-manager and the amount he should receive. Both the principal participant and the co-manager will each fill out a W-9. Once these documents are received and approved by the [Other contest], the prize monies will be released to both parties. At year's end, both the principal participant and the co-manager will each receive IRS Form-1099 for their prize awards.



Limitations to prize splitting: prize splitting is limited to TWO persons only: the principal participant and the co-manager. Under no circumstance will [Other Contest] will issue payment to anyone other than these two persons. Only total prize awards of $2,000 or greater will be eligible for prize splitting. This may can be a combination of any CASH prizes won in any [Other Contest] tournament, league or contest. [Other Contest] Dollars or any non-cash prizes are not applicable for prize splitting. Each share of prize split awards must be a minimum of $600. There will be a $25 processing fee charged for the transaction and will be deducted from the primary owner's share of the prize money. [Other Contest] may, at its own discretion, refuse to accept any prize splitting request and process the entire award to the principal participant. Please email [Other Contest] This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it with any further questions regarding the prize splitting process."



Glenn

[CC's Desperados]

If I had a partner in a higher level event and I was the primary owner, I would 1099 my partner his half of the winnings. It would give me a straight 50 % deduction off my winnings. I would then be responsible for my half. You can buy the forms at Staples.

[ToddZ]

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

You can buy the forms at Staples. Shill....

[CC's Desperados]

Originally posted by ToddZ:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

You can buy the forms at Staples. Shill.... [/QUOTE]That's the rumor on the streets!

[CC's Desperados]

Originally posted by ToddZ:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

You can buy the forms at Staples. Shill.... [/QUOTE]By the way, I prefer to be called the Big Shill!