The Derek Jeter bargaining is amusing, no?
Jeter's agent seems to be fishing for icon prices. The trouble being, that Jeter is only an icon on one team. "Batting second for the San Francisco Giants, Derek Jeter...". It sounds like just another player traded.
The REAL Steinbrenner era has passed, Jeter and his agent are going to have to 'settle'.
Still. I feel a little bad for Jeter. If he does sign for 3/45, he'll, most likely, be the seventh highest paid Yankee next year.
Especially galling, in that AJ Burnett will be making more money than him.
That, doesn't sound iconic at all.
I watched a lot of football on Thanksgiving. I was incredulous at how many times a ball carrier and quarterback were hit and then patted the hitter on the back and vice versa. I like football with attitude. Some of these guys were like the pickup game down at the park. Helping tacklees to their feet. C'mon, we know you're a Union, but share a little of the fans hate for the other team.
The Detroit Lions Head Coach's name was Jim Schwartz. Since it's Thanksgiving, he is probably thankful that he did not have new wave generation parents that spelled his name, 'Gym'.
Victor Martinez was signed by the Tigers. Every time I see a Roto News clip of how a AAA catcher won't be promoted because of defense, I think of Martinez.
He has never had Major League quality defense. The Tigers look like they'll do a better job of 'hiding' his lack of defense, while still making him catcher-eligible for fantasy players. Thank you, Tigers.
Thanksgiving quote-
Thanksgiving. Man. Not a good day to be my pants.
-Kevin James
Thanksgiving Weekend
Thanksgiving Weekend
On my tombstone-
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Thanksgiving Weekend
If Jeter doesn't come down the Yankees will have an excuse to get rid of him and the fan base won't become as mutinous as they would if the Yankees just said no. I think the Yanks would love that. They want a shortstop who can field. It has gotten to the point where Jeter's BS gold gloves are going to cost him money. Because he could be a really useful player if he moved to a position he could handle. But you don't move a guy who just won the gold glove and you *definitely* don't move him if you're the Yankees. It'd be easier to just not sign him than to move him--so they would opt not to sign him.
Ultimately, though, I think Jeter is not going to want to go that low and the Yankees won't want to give him the money to sign him until he is 42. At the same time, if he tests the market with other teams, he is going to be disappointed by how little interest they have in him.
So it is a giant paradox. He can't stay, can't leave and can't come down. The answer: a one year deal with the Yanks. He'll get the money he wants, he'll save face, and the Yankees will get exactly what they want--either a decent year out of him or an awful year that will have Yankees fans happy to lose him.
Ultimately, though, I think Jeter is not going to want to go that low and the Yankees won't want to give him the money to sign him until he is 42. At the same time, if he tests the market with other teams, he is going to be disappointed by how little interest they have in him.
So it is a giant paradox. He can't stay, can't leave and can't come down. The answer: a one year deal with the Yanks. He'll get the money he wants, he'll save face, and the Yankees will get exactly what they want--either a decent year out of him or an awful year that will have Yankees fans happy to lose him.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
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Navel Lint
- Posts: 1723
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Thanksgiving Weekend
Originally posted by bjoak:
If Jeter doesn't come down the Yankees will have an excuse to get rid of him and the fan base won't become as mutinous as they would if the Yankees just said no. I think the Yanks would love that. They want a shortstop who can field. It has gotten to the point where Jeter's BS gold gloves are going to cost him money. Because he could be a really useful player if he moved to a position he could handle. But you don't move a guy who just won the gold glove and you *definitely* don't move him if you're the Yankees. It'd be easier to just not sign him than to move him--so they would opt not to sign him.
Ultimately, though, I think Jeter is not going to want to go that low and the Yankees won't want to give him the money to sign him until he is 42. At the same time, if he tests the market with other teams, he is going to be disappointed by how little interest they have in him.
So it is a giant paradox. He can't stay, can't leave and can't come down. The answer: a one year deal with the Yanks. He'll get the money he wants, he'll save face, and the Yankees will get exactly what they want--either a decent year out of him or an awful year that will have Yankees fans happy to lose him. I think your observation is right on the money.
The Yanks should overpay Jeter for one year, let him get his 3000 hit, and then part ways.
If Jeter doesn't come down the Yankees will have an excuse to get rid of him and the fan base won't become as mutinous as they would if the Yankees just said no. I think the Yanks would love that. They want a shortstop who can field. It has gotten to the point where Jeter's BS gold gloves are going to cost him money. Because he could be a really useful player if he moved to a position he could handle. But you don't move a guy who just won the gold glove and you *definitely* don't move him if you're the Yankees. It'd be easier to just not sign him than to move him--so they would opt not to sign him.
Ultimately, though, I think Jeter is not going to want to go that low and the Yankees won't want to give him the money to sign him until he is 42. At the same time, if he tests the market with other teams, he is going to be disappointed by how little interest they have in him.
So it is a giant paradox. He can't stay, can't leave and can't come down. The answer: a one year deal with the Yanks. He'll get the money he wants, he'll save face, and the Yankees will get exactly what they want--either a decent year out of him or an awful year that will have Yankees fans happy to lose him. I think your observation is right on the money.
The Yanks should overpay Jeter for one year, let him get his 3000 hit, and then part ways.
Russel -Navel Lint
"Fans don't boo nobodies"
-Reggie Jackson
"Fans don't boo nobodies"
-Reggie Jackson
Thanksgiving Weekend
Originally posted by Navel Lint:
The Yanks should overpay Jeter for one year, let him get his 3000 hit, and then part ways. [/QB]That won't happen, both sides are too prideful. So I say take this to the extreme and let both sides save some face. Yanks say 3/$45m. Jeter says 5/$100m, which is ridiculous and he knows it. So give him the short-term money but not the years, and front load it to 2011 when he'll have the absolute most value due to the chase for 3k hits...he'll draw in more fans, not only at the stadium via ticket sales but through TV ratings, merchandise sales, increased advertising, and old-fashioned publicity. Thus, I say give him 3 years/$60m but make it a 3rd year option, and lay it out as:
2011--$35m
2012--$15m
2013--$10m option w/$5m buyout
This makes him the highest paid player in history, for one year, which satisfies the player's ego (it's killing him that he's playing next to A-Rod, who's making $31m in '11). The team can justify it because of all the extra revenue he'll bring in during that season. And it's the best chance that the team will actually garner some on-the-field value from the player as well before he really starts to slip down the other side. He then transitions in 2012 to another position, or DH/part-time middle infielder. And then he can finally accept his role as 40 year old elder statesman/DH/utility player while still making $10m, which is 3x more than he'd get anywhere else, or he can take his final $5m Thank You and see what life is like outside New York. He gets to average the $20m per he's seeking but compromises on the number of years.
He's still being overpaid, but the team needs to do it for team and fan unity and for the historical value he adds only to that franchise. And he needs to get that hit while in pinstripes, which will guarantee him a very lucrative income for the rest of his life. Leaving the Yanks would be an incredibly stupid move by both parties, and this plan lets them both walk away looking equally stupid, which is what's necessary...if one party is perceived as having taken advantage of the other then both will be severely damaged.
Just my $.02
The Yanks should overpay Jeter for one year, let him get his 3000 hit, and then part ways. [/QB]That won't happen, both sides are too prideful. So I say take this to the extreme and let both sides save some face. Yanks say 3/$45m. Jeter says 5/$100m, which is ridiculous and he knows it. So give him the short-term money but not the years, and front load it to 2011 when he'll have the absolute most value due to the chase for 3k hits...he'll draw in more fans, not only at the stadium via ticket sales but through TV ratings, merchandise sales, increased advertising, and old-fashioned publicity. Thus, I say give him 3 years/$60m but make it a 3rd year option, and lay it out as:
2011--$35m
2012--$15m
2013--$10m option w/$5m buyout
This makes him the highest paid player in history, for one year, which satisfies the player's ego (it's killing him that he's playing next to A-Rod, who's making $31m in '11). The team can justify it because of all the extra revenue he'll bring in during that season. And it's the best chance that the team will actually garner some on-the-field value from the player as well before he really starts to slip down the other side. He then transitions in 2012 to another position, or DH/part-time middle infielder. And then he can finally accept his role as 40 year old elder statesman/DH/utility player while still making $10m, which is 3x more than he'd get anywhere else, or he can take his final $5m Thank You and see what life is like outside New York. He gets to average the $20m per he's seeking but compromises on the number of years.
He's still being overpaid, but the team needs to do it for team and fan unity and for the historical value he adds only to that franchise. And he needs to get that hit while in pinstripes, which will guarantee him a very lucrative income for the rest of his life. Leaving the Yanks would be an incredibly stupid move by both parties, and this plan lets them both walk away looking equally stupid, which is what's necessary...if one party is perceived as having taken advantage of the other then both will be severely damaged.
Just my $.02
"There is but one game and that game is baseball." – John McGraw
Thanksgiving Weekend
During the off season, fans used to ask, 'Who'd we get?'. Now, 'How much did he get?'
Personally, I would like to have all contract offers and negotiations be done behind closed doors.
Jeter's agent, telling the press that he is 'baffled' by Yankees Management and Cashman stating that Jeter can 'look at other options' isn't good for Jeter or the Yankees. They simply, play into the press hands and take negotiations to the public.
Jeter won't sign a one year contract or be offered a front loaded contract. Even with the offer the Yankees have on the table, Jeter will be an overpaid Yankee. Through endorsements alone, Jeter could take far less money from the Yankees, but still make more in New York than if offered a contract somewhere else. He and his agent know that, and so do Yankee management.
Through history, aging players have 'won' very few negotiations. Some like Kenny Lofton and Jermaine Dye take it to a new level. Preferring a vainful pride over a measly million dollars. Which, I guess, is the opposite of most kids credo's growing up, "I would play for free!"
In the end, Jeter's legacy is more important to him than the money. He'll sign a contract that is more to the Yankees liking than his, and it'll be spun to the public in a favorable way for all.
Jeter's body is no longer even worth 45 million dollars over three years. But, his face is.
It is the face of the Yankees.
Personally, I would like to have all contract offers and negotiations be done behind closed doors.
Jeter's agent, telling the press that he is 'baffled' by Yankees Management and Cashman stating that Jeter can 'look at other options' isn't good for Jeter or the Yankees. They simply, play into the press hands and take negotiations to the public.
Jeter won't sign a one year contract or be offered a front loaded contract. Even with the offer the Yankees have on the table, Jeter will be an overpaid Yankee. Through endorsements alone, Jeter could take far less money from the Yankees, but still make more in New York than if offered a contract somewhere else. He and his agent know that, and so do Yankee management.
Through history, aging players have 'won' very few negotiations. Some like Kenny Lofton and Jermaine Dye take it to a new level. Preferring a vainful pride over a measly million dollars. Which, I guess, is the opposite of most kids credo's growing up, "I would play for free!"
In the end, Jeter's legacy is more important to him than the money. He'll sign a contract that is more to the Yankees liking than his, and it'll be spun to the public in a favorable way for all.
Jeter's body is no longer even worth 45 million dollars over three years. But, his face is.
It is the face of the Yankees.
On my tombstone-
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Thanksgiving Weekend
Ten years ago, Derek Jeter opted for long-term security by accepting a $189M offer from the Yankees, incurring the risk that he may out-perform the contract.
Ten years ago, the New York Yankees took a chance by offering a 10-year deal to Derek Jeter, incurring the risk his level of play warranted such a lofty sum and he remained healthy.
Fast forward 10 years and the Yankees "won" the deal.
Jeter took a risk and "lost". As the proverbial "they" say, would he have returned the money had he been injured and was unable to complete the length of the contract healthy?
That said, at some point within the contract, the Yankees "could have done the right thing" and offered to extend the deal (to be honest, they may have, I don't follow this sort of thing). By not doing so, they take the risk Jeter takes his talents elsewhere at the end of the contract. But they know the abstract aspects of this situation make this a longshot to happen.
I think to make it work, the Yankees should give a little, to show their appreciation for the past 10 years. And at the same time, Jeter needs to give a lot, admitting he "lost" the 10-year deal and moving on, instead of trying to make up for "the loss."
Not sure how to quantify this, but if Derek Jeter led the Kansas City Royals to 6 titles, would he have the same cache and fame as he has because it was the vaunted and historically famous Bronx Bombers? Hie endorsements are certainly better, not to mention the quality of his female companions.
My solution would be a perpetual contact that would kick in based on a set number of plate appearances the previous season, then have a mutual option if it doesn't, with the perpetual option to kick back in if he meets the minimum the year of the option.
Say $20M with 600 plate appearances, with a $10M option.
If he accrues 600 PA, he gets $20MIL the next year.
If he gets hurt and fails to meet it, both sides can agree on $10M the next year and if he gets 600 PA, the $20M kicks back in.
The various numbers are just suggestions.
Ten years ago, the New York Yankees took a chance by offering a 10-year deal to Derek Jeter, incurring the risk his level of play warranted such a lofty sum and he remained healthy.
Fast forward 10 years and the Yankees "won" the deal.
Jeter took a risk and "lost". As the proverbial "they" say, would he have returned the money had he been injured and was unable to complete the length of the contract healthy?
That said, at some point within the contract, the Yankees "could have done the right thing" and offered to extend the deal (to be honest, they may have, I don't follow this sort of thing). By not doing so, they take the risk Jeter takes his talents elsewhere at the end of the contract. But they know the abstract aspects of this situation make this a longshot to happen.
I think to make it work, the Yankees should give a little, to show their appreciation for the past 10 years. And at the same time, Jeter needs to give a lot, admitting he "lost" the 10-year deal and moving on, instead of trying to make up for "the loss."
Not sure how to quantify this, but if Derek Jeter led the Kansas City Royals to 6 titles, would he have the same cache and fame as he has because it was the vaunted and historically famous Bronx Bombers? Hie endorsements are certainly better, not to mention the quality of his female companions.
My solution would be a perpetual contact that would kick in based on a set number of plate appearances the previous season, then have a mutual option if it doesn't, with the perpetual option to kick back in if he meets the minimum the year of the option.
Say $20M with 600 plate appearances, with a $10M option.
If he accrues 600 PA, he gets $20MIL the next year.
If he gets hurt and fails to meet it, both sides can agree on $10M the next year and if he gets 600 PA, the $20M kicks back in.
The various numbers are just suggestions.
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 41123
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Thanksgiving Weekend
Man, when I read this weekend that Jeter's agent actually asked the Yankees for a 4-5 year contract at $22-$25 million per year my first thought was "wow, did he overreach." That explains why the Steinbrenners are going public. Their three-year, $45 million deal is fair and Yankee fans know it.
Jeter isn't worth $15 million a year anymore, but as he goes for 3,000 hits the Yankees know he has more valuable to them than any other team. He's the face of the franchise, the fans want him to return and the Steinbrenners have made a very fair offer.
Both sides will find a middle ground, but I have to believe the longest Jeter signs for is 3 years. Or 3 years with the Yankees holding the option for a fourth year. It will get done, but man did Jeter's agent overreach.
Jeter isn't worth $15 million a year anymore, but as he goes for 3,000 hits the Yankees know he has more valuable to them than any other team. He's the face of the franchise, the fans want him to return and the Steinbrenners have made a very fair offer.
Both sides will find a middle ground, but I have to believe the longest Jeter signs for is 3 years. Or 3 years with the Yankees holding the option for a fourth year. It will get done, but man did Jeter's agent overreach.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Thanksgiving Weekend
Originally posted by BEF:
quote:Originally posted by Navel Lint:
The Yanks should overpay Jeter for one year, let him get his 3000 hit, and then part ways. That won't happen, both sides are too prideful. So I say take this to the extreme and let both sides save some face. Yanks say 3/$45m. Jeter says 5/$100m, which is ridiculous and he knows it. So give him the short-term money but not the years, and front load it to 2011 when he'll have the absolute most value due to the chase for 3k hits...he'll draw in more fans, not only at the stadium via ticket sales but through TV ratings, merchandise sales, increased advertising, and old-fashioned publicity. Thus, I say give him 3 years/$60m but make it a 3rd year option, and lay it out as:
2011--$35m
2012--$15m
2013--$10m option w/$5m buyout
This makes him the highest paid player in history, for one year, which satisfies the player's ego (it's killing him that he's playing next to A-Rod, who's making $31m in '11). The team can justify it because of all the extra revenue he'll bring in during that season. And it's the best chance that the team will actually garner some on-the-field value from the player as well before he really starts to slip down the other side. He then transitions in 2012 to another position, or DH/part-time middle infielder. And then he can finally accept his role as 40 year old elder statesman/DH/utility player while still making $10m, which is 3x more than he'd get anywhere else, or he can take his final $5m Thank You and see what life is like outside New York. He gets to average the $20m per he's seeking but compromises on the number of years.
He's still being overpaid, but the team needs to do it for team and fan unity and for the historical value he adds only to that franchise. And he needs to get that hit while in pinstripes, which will guarantee him a very lucrative income for the rest of his life. Leaving the Yanks would be an incredibly stupid move by both parties, and this plan lets them both walk away looking equally stupid, which is what's necessary...if one party is perceived as having taken advantage of the other then both will be severely damaged.
Just my $.02 [/QB][/QUOTE]You vastly overestimate the value of being the 28th player to accomplish something or other.
quote:Originally posted by Navel Lint:
The Yanks should overpay Jeter for one year, let him get his 3000 hit, and then part ways. That won't happen, both sides are too prideful. So I say take this to the extreme and let both sides save some face. Yanks say 3/$45m. Jeter says 5/$100m, which is ridiculous and he knows it. So give him the short-term money but not the years, and front load it to 2011 when he'll have the absolute most value due to the chase for 3k hits...he'll draw in more fans, not only at the stadium via ticket sales but through TV ratings, merchandise sales, increased advertising, and old-fashioned publicity. Thus, I say give him 3 years/$60m but make it a 3rd year option, and lay it out as:
2011--$35m
2012--$15m
2013--$10m option w/$5m buyout
This makes him the highest paid player in history, for one year, which satisfies the player's ego (it's killing him that he's playing next to A-Rod, who's making $31m in '11). The team can justify it because of all the extra revenue he'll bring in during that season. And it's the best chance that the team will actually garner some on-the-field value from the player as well before he really starts to slip down the other side. He then transitions in 2012 to another position, or DH/part-time middle infielder. And then he can finally accept his role as 40 year old elder statesman/DH/utility player while still making $10m, which is 3x more than he'd get anywhere else, or he can take his final $5m Thank You and see what life is like outside New York. He gets to average the $20m per he's seeking but compromises on the number of years.
He's still being overpaid, but the team needs to do it for team and fan unity and for the historical value he adds only to that franchise. And he needs to get that hit while in pinstripes, which will guarantee him a very lucrative income for the rest of his life. Leaving the Yanks would be an incredibly stupid move by both parties, and this plan lets them both walk away looking equally stupid, which is what's necessary...if one party is perceived as having taken advantage of the other then both will be severely damaged.
Just my $.02 [/QB][/QUOTE]You vastly overestimate the value of being the 28th player to accomplish something or other.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Thanksgiving Weekend
I think to make it work, the Yankees should give a little, to show their appreciation for the past 10 years.I don't know. Isn't it just as easy to say Jeter owes the Yankees for taking a chance on him and offering him security? Also, 19 mil a year? He was pretty well paid for his services even if he did play well.
[ November 28, 2010, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: bjoak ]
[ November 28, 2010, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: bjoak ]
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Thanksgiving Weekend
I have no idea how to calculate the TV revenue due to Jeter's chase for 3000. Maybe they'll sell some extra Jeter jerseys although I would think not as many as some would speculate because most Jeter fans already have one. What if the Yanks are on an extended road trip when he is nearing 3000 and sets it on the road. There goes any extra fans in the seats(Yankee Stadium seats) that is.
Now, take the Jeter money and give it too Crawford. You'll sell a decent amount of Crawford Jerseys and make some extra revenue. Maybe Crawford or another top free agent gives the yanks a better chance to win the world series than does Jeter. Each additional playoff and world series game is worth a huge amount for the Yanks.
There are so many calculations that go into this particular deal that don't come into play with other players(jeter himself, 3000 hits, off field revenues) that make it so interesting to discuss.
I am making a big assumption that the Yanks are going to sign Lee.
So sign Lee and Crawford, don't sign Jeter, pick up a shortstop, Maybe Bartlett and win the world series with that squad. After all, the object is to win the Series and I think signing Jeter MIGHT hinder that goal although I think they obviously can win it with him.
thanks for taking the time to read this nonsense and have a nice day.
Dan
Now, take the Jeter money and give it too Crawford. You'll sell a decent amount of Crawford Jerseys and make some extra revenue. Maybe Crawford or another top free agent gives the yanks a better chance to win the world series than does Jeter. Each additional playoff and world series game is worth a huge amount for the Yanks.
There are so many calculations that go into this particular deal that don't come into play with other players(jeter himself, 3000 hits, off field revenues) that make it so interesting to discuss.
I am making a big assumption that the Yanks are going to sign Lee.
So sign Lee and Crawford, don't sign Jeter, pick up a shortstop, Maybe Bartlett and win the world series with that squad. After all, the object is to win the Series and I think signing Jeter MIGHT hinder that goal although I think they obviously can win it with him.
thanks for taking the time to read this nonsense and have a nice day.
Dan
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 41123
- Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:00 pm
- Contact:
Thanksgiving Weekend
Hey, Happy belated Thanksgiving to everyone in the NFBC. I don't know about you, but I needed a long holiday weekend to give thanks to everything I have around me. Sometimes you forget how good you have it until you take a few days to appreciate it and spend time with the family. Wow, what a great weekend.
I hope everyone else did the same. Don't take anything for granted and make sure you reintroduce yourself to the spouse and kids when you have the chance.
Okay, now that we're all regenerated and have the get-up-and-go back, let's start to get serious about this upcoming baseball season. Tom and I are going through the default rankings for our draft software today and the goal is to have that loaded by tomorrow at the latest. We have a little more testing to do on the software and then we'll have draftpractice.com ready for everyone to use. It's time to start drafting.
This year we'll have our own mock draft software and I'd love to set up a time each day or night to have mock NFBC drafts. I know we have them available all day long, but it's tough to get a full crew when the drafts go off every 10 minutes. Maybe we can set up a certain time during a certain day of the week to have some serious NFBC mock drafts and really get serious there. Look for more details soon on all of that, but we're going to use this mock draft software to all of our benefits this year. Get ready.
Okay, more details to come. Give thanks for the family and then let's move on to baseball. They'll understand if you were good to them last weekend.
I hope everyone else did the same. Don't take anything for granted and make sure you reintroduce yourself to the spouse and kids when you have the chance.
Okay, now that we're all regenerated and have the get-up-and-go back, let's start to get serious about this upcoming baseball season. Tom and I are going through the default rankings for our draft software today and the goal is to have that loaded by tomorrow at the latest. We have a little more testing to do on the software and then we'll have draftpractice.com ready for everyone to use. It's time to start drafting.
This year we'll have our own mock draft software and I'd love to set up a time each day or night to have mock NFBC drafts. I know we have them available all day long, but it's tough to get a full crew when the drafts go off every 10 minutes. Maybe we can set up a certain time during a certain day of the week to have some serious NFBC mock drafts and really get serious there. Look for more details soon on all of that, but we're going to use this mock draft software to all of our benefits this year. Get ready.
Okay, more details to come. Give thanks for the family and then let's move on to baseball. They'll understand if you were good to them last weekend.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius