Last year, I wrote that Dayton Moore really was not GM material. Moore has built the Royals minor league system into a well-stocked system since taking the job. That part of his job made easier by the Royals perennially bad finishes. To his credit, he took over a system that was destitute of prospects and built it to one of the best in baseball.
If his job was director of the Royals scouting staff, he would be one of the best in the business, but it's not.
Moore is in charge of what players take the field in Kansas City.
His failing.
This year, the Royals take the field with a starting outfield of Alex Gordon, Melky Cabrera, and Jeff Francouer.
It can be argued that none of these players would be starting for any of the Royals divisional opponents. Heck, in a current fantasy draft, Francouer and Cabrera were not taken till AFTER the 30th round.
In fact, barring Billy Butler, it could be argued that none of the Royals starting nine would start for a division opponent.
Moore has made many questionable moves. Letting John Buck and Miguel Olivo go, only to sign Jason Kendall was a stroke of GM madness.
Moore also cannot get the Braves system out of his mind. Francouer and Cabrera both being castoffs from the Braves. What WAS good (or bad) for the Braves, has to be good for the Royals, right?
The cavalry is coming. Moustakas, Montgomery, and Hosmer will fill Management needs. Royals management seems to require that they have three faces that can be put on programs and be in the public eye to fill enough seats to make the business profitable. Right now, it is Greinke, Soria, and Butler. In two years, it'll be a different three, maybe the three mentioned. Winning is out the door and got kicked in the ass on the way out. Turning a profit is the priority. If fans will come see Melky Cabrera, why pay somebody else more?
The Washington Nationals signed Jayson Werth to a bad contract. They too, have kids coming through the pipeline that are ready for the Major Leagues. Signing Werth to the bad contract will, of course, hinder the money needed to extend contracts later. But, and it is a big BUT, they are trying to build something in Washington. More importantly, they are showing their fans that they want to win, not just raise seat prices to watch Yuni Betancourt play shortstop like the College kid down the street.
Moore has been given some loosened purse strings in the past.
He signed Gil Meche and Jose Guillen.
That's enough to slam the snaps on any pocketbook.
Currently, besides Meche, Greinke is the highest paid Royal. He is on the trading block. When Soria and Butler become the highest paid Royals, they to, will be shown the door. Without a change in ownership and management, Moustakas, Montgomery, and Hosmer will see the same door when they flourish in Kansas City.
The Royals do not have the lowest payroll in baseball. The Marlins have had the lowest for the last three or four years. The Marlins parlay a good system with savvy trades and extending some contracts,while trading others, like Dan Uggla, who want to make more money elsewhere.
The Marlins remain competitive.
I've railed about Kansas City ownership and Moore in the past. The combination has become a worse case scenario for Royals fans. Moore's magic with the farm system gives Royals fans hope.
False hopes.
If it were Tampa, it wouldn't work. The fans in Tampa barely come to see a winner.
Royals fans are not as picky.
Still, how long will they pay Major League prices to see a minor league product?
Until they stop coming, the Royals have a perfect storm of bad ownership, bad management, and good farm system.
But, one city's loss is another's gain.
Kansas city fans will be watching retreads and never were's, for the better part of the year.
With a new name, new logo, and great prospects to view, Omaha Storm Chasers fans are looking forward to a great season.
Omaha South
Omaha South
On my tombstone-
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
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Cocktails and Dreams
- Posts: 681
- Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:00 pm
Omaha South
As I die hard Royals fan, I disagree with almost all of this, the same way I feel you were completely wrong this summer when it was discussed. He has done one hell of a job building this thing. Should be fun soon. Cannot wait. Hopefully Dayton keeps it rolling. No way in hell they would be where they are without him. The goal is to win championships and he has them positioned to be damn good soon. Best minor league system and it is not even close. It is awesome at the top and very deep. Questioning Dayton is so wrong, I cannot even believe it. And I usually agree with what you have to say, but not on this subject at all.
Omaha South
Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:
As I die hard Royals fan, I disagree with almost all of this, the same way I feel you were completely wrong this summer when it was discussed. He has done one hell of a job building this thing. Should be fun soon. Cannot wait. Hopefully Dayton keeps it rolling. No way in hell they would be where they are without him. The goal is to win championships and he has them positioned to be damn good soon. Best minor league system and it is not even close. It is awesome at the top and very deep. Questioning Dayton is so wrong, I cannot even believe it. And I usually agree with what you have to say, but not on this subject at all. Dough makes a lot of good points - to which you say questioning the GM is wrong - although he seems to agree with your only argument, building a good farm system.
Do we assume you like the Francouer, Jose Guillen, Kendall, Meche deals? None of those looked good even without the benefit of hindsight. I think he's spot on.
As I die hard Royals fan, I disagree with almost all of this, the same way I feel you were completely wrong this summer when it was discussed. He has done one hell of a job building this thing. Should be fun soon. Cannot wait. Hopefully Dayton keeps it rolling. No way in hell they would be where they are without him. The goal is to win championships and he has them positioned to be damn good soon. Best minor league system and it is not even close. It is awesome at the top and very deep. Questioning Dayton is so wrong, I cannot even believe it. And I usually agree with what you have to say, but not on this subject at all. Dough makes a lot of good points - to which you say questioning the GM is wrong - although he seems to agree with your only argument, building a good farm system.
Do we assume you like the Francouer, Jose Guillen, Kendall, Meche deals? None of those looked good even without the benefit of hindsight. I think he's spot on.
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Chest Rockwell
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:00 pm
- Contact:
Omaha South
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:
As I die hard Royals fan, I disagree with almost all of this, the same way I feel you were completely wrong this summer when it was discussed. He has done one hell of a job building this thing. Should be fun soon. Cannot wait. Hopefully Dayton keeps it rolling. No way in hell they would be where they are without him. The goal is to win championships and he has them positioned to be damn good soon. Best minor league system and it is not even close. It is awesome at the top and very deep. Questioning Dayton is so wrong, I cannot even believe it. And I usually agree with what you have to say, but not on this subject at all. Dough makes a lot of good points - to which you say questioning the GM is wrong - although he seems to agree with your only argument, building a good farm system.
Do we assume you like the Francouer, Jose Guillen, Kendall, Meche deals? None of those looked good even without the benefit of hindsight. I think he's spot on. [/QUOTE]Totally agree- I cannot see how anyone with any angle, opinion etc can justify multi year contracts above market to Kendall,Guillen, and Betancourt. To me the Meche contract looks worse in hindsight than when he signed it. If he wants to rent players for prospects then less quantity and more quality IMO. I cannot see another team in baseball giving Cabrera guaranteed money. Everyone in baseball seems to know what Francouer is but Dayton.
For the Royals to be a force in the coming years he has to hit on the big prospects, convince ownership to spend money on the spare parts, and stop doing the Betancourt type deals. Color me skeptical.
quote:Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:
As I die hard Royals fan, I disagree with almost all of this, the same way I feel you were completely wrong this summer when it was discussed. He has done one hell of a job building this thing. Should be fun soon. Cannot wait. Hopefully Dayton keeps it rolling. No way in hell they would be where they are without him. The goal is to win championships and he has them positioned to be damn good soon. Best minor league system and it is not even close. It is awesome at the top and very deep. Questioning Dayton is so wrong, I cannot even believe it. And I usually agree with what you have to say, but not on this subject at all. Dough makes a lot of good points - to which you say questioning the GM is wrong - although he seems to agree with your only argument, building a good farm system.
Do we assume you like the Francouer, Jose Guillen, Kendall, Meche deals? None of those looked good even without the benefit of hindsight. I think he's spot on. [/QUOTE]Totally agree- I cannot see how anyone with any angle, opinion etc can justify multi year contracts above market to Kendall,Guillen, and Betancourt. To me the Meche contract looks worse in hindsight than when he signed it. If he wants to rent players for prospects then less quantity and more quality IMO. I cannot see another team in baseball giving Cabrera guaranteed money. Everyone in baseball seems to know what Francouer is but Dayton.
For the Royals to be a force in the coming years he has to hit on the big prospects, convince ownership to spend money on the spare parts, and stop doing the Betancourt type deals. Color me skeptical.
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headhunters
- Posts: 1976
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:00 pm
Omaha South
i agree with dough also. i have to say that kc has great fans. to draw even 1 million with that garbage on the field is amazing. everyone talks about what great fans the red sox, cubs etc. have but put that team on the field for 7 years in a row in chicago or boston and watch what those "great" fans would do.
Omaha South
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Omaha South
Todd, I'm having a tough time filling this out... I need to know where the trades/moves were played.
was he:
1. in his royal blue loo?
2. at a bar(after 2 drinks, 5, 10)?
3. walking the dog (11pm 3am)
4. playing cards w/other GM's
5. while his fantasy team was contending, non-contending
6. sweeping coins out of the fountain
[ December 15, 2010, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Quahogs ]
was he:
1. in his royal blue loo?
2. at a bar(after 2 drinks, 5, 10)?
3. walking the dog (11pm 3am)
4. playing cards w/other GM's
5. while his fantasy team was contending, non-contending
6. sweeping coins out of the fountain
[ December 15, 2010, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Quahogs ]
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NorCalAtlFan
- Posts: 1258
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:00 pm
- Contact:
Omaha South
Steve brings up a very good point.
Also, stop bashing Dayton!! He's helping Atlanta out by taking their retreads. And might even "give" them Greinke(one can hope)
Also, stop bashing Dayton!! He's helping Atlanta out by taking their retreads. And might even "give" them Greinke(one can hope)
Omaha South
Every GM give's out bad contracts its part of the business. Have you ever made a bad fantasy pick? I suppose not.
How about the Red Sox 2010 Pay Roll. Do they have any bad contracts?
1 John Lackey 18,700,000
2 J.D. Drew 14,000,000
3 David Ortiz 13,000,000
4 Josh Beckett 12,100,000
5 Jonathan Papelbon 9,350,000
6 Adrian Beltre 9,000,000
7 Bill Hall 8,525,000
8 Daisuke Matsuzaka 8,333,333
9 Victor Martinez 7,700,000
10 Marco Scutaro 5,500,000
11 Jon Lester 3,750,000
12 Tim Wakefield 3,500,000
13 Jason Varitek 3,000,000
14 Hideki Okajima 2,750,000
15 Felipe Lopez 1,000,000
16 Clay Buchholz 443,000
17 Jed Lowrie 434,000
18 Scott Atchison 420,000
19 Jarrod Saltalamacchia 418,580
20 Daniel Bard 415,500
21 Eric Patterson 405,000
Also remember the Boston Red Sox won the bidding rights to Matsuzaka with a bid of $51,111,111.11
Which does not show up in his annual salary.
If your a small market team the only chance you have is in building a minor league system. When your system is ready to produce you can expand payroll for a 2 or 3 year window. Then your window will close until the system is ready to produce again.
The Royals are on the right track. Even with a few bad contract that have handcuffed them. The more important thing is the window may start to open for them.
How about the Red Sox 2010 Pay Roll. Do they have any bad contracts?
1 John Lackey 18,700,000
2 J.D. Drew 14,000,000
3 David Ortiz 13,000,000
4 Josh Beckett 12,100,000
5 Jonathan Papelbon 9,350,000
6 Adrian Beltre 9,000,000
7 Bill Hall 8,525,000
8 Daisuke Matsuzaka 8,333,333
9 Victor Martinez 7,700,000
10 Marco Scutaro 5,500,000
11 Jon Lester 3,750,000
12 Tim Wakefield 3,500,000
13 Jason Varitek 3,000,000
14 Hideki Okajima 2,750,000
15 Felipe Lopez 1,000,000
16 Clay Buchholz 443,000
17 Jed Lowrie 434,000
18 Scott Atchison 420,000
19 Jarrod Saltalamacchia 418,580
20 Daniel Bard 415,500
21 Eric Patterson 405,000
Also remember the Boston Red Sox won the bidding rights to Matsuzaka with a bid of $51,111,111.11
Which does not show up in his annual salary.
If your a small market team the only chance you have is in building a minor league system. When your system is ready to produce you can expand payroll for a 2 or 3 year window. Then your window will close until the system is ready to produce again.
The Royals are on the right track. Even with a few bad contract that have handcuffed them. The more important thing is the window may start to open for them.
Omaha South
This is the 2010 payroll for all teams.
1 New York Yankees 206,738,389
2 Boston Red Sox 160,913,333
3 Chicago Cubs 146,609,000
4 Philadelphia Phillies 142,728,379
5 New York Mets 136,022,942
6 Detroit Tigers 122,864,928
7 Chicago White Sox 105,530,000
8 Los Angeles Angels 104,161,666
9 San Francisco Giants 98,586,333
10 Los Angeles Dodgers 95,358,016
11 St. Louis Cardinals 93,940,751
12 Houston Astros 92,355,500
13 Minnesota Twins 90,309,166
14 Seattle Mariners 86,910,000
15 Atlanta Braves 84,423,666
16 Colorado Rockies 83,172,000
17 Baltimore Orioles 81,202,500
18 Milwaukee Brewers 81,108,278
19 Tampa Bay Rays 72,323,471
20 Kansas City Royals 71,405,210
21 Cincinnati Reds 68,200,542
22 Washington Nationals 62,349,000
23 Toronto Blue Jays 61,484,400
24 Cleveland Indians 60,778,966
25 Florida Marlins 55,239,500
26 Texas Rangers 55,168,114
27 Oakland Athletics 50,839,900
28 Arizona Diamondbacks 48,452,166
29 San Diego Padres 38,199,300
30 Pittsburgh Pirates 34,933,000
To all you folks who are pounding on the the Royals GM. I have a thought for you.
We can have a league of 30 owners in an auction style format with 40 man rosters. You can pick your team from above for how much money you can spend for the draft.
I will be the Yankees and you can be some small market team. After the season is over we can review your contracts. We will then discover why you did not win.
1 New York Yankees 206,738,389
2 Boston Red Sox 160,913,333
3 Chicago Cubs 146,609,000
4 Philadelphia Phillies 142,728,379
5 New York Mets 136,022,942
6 Detroit Tigers 122,864,928
7 Chicago White Sox 105,530,000
8 Los Angeles Angels 104,161,666
9 San Francisco Giants 98,586,333
10 Los Angeles Dodgers 95,358,016
11 St. Louis Cardinals 93,940,751
12 Houston Astros 92,355,500
13 Minnesota Twins 90,309,166
14 Seattle Mariners 86,910,000
15 Atlanta Braves 84,423,666
16 Colorado Rockies 83,172,000
17 Baltimore Orioles 81,202,500
18 Milwaukee Brewers 81,108,278
19 Tampa Bay Rays 72,323,471
20 Kansas City Royals 71,405,210
21 Cincinnati Reds 68,200,542
22 Washington Nationals 62,349,000
23 Toronto Blue Jays 61,484,400
24 Cleveland Indians 60,778,966
25 Florida Marlins 55,239,500
26 Texas Rangers 55,168,114
27 Oakland Athletics 50,839,900
28 Arizona Diamondbacks 48,452,166
29 San Diego Padres 38,199,300
30 Pittsburgh Pirates 34,933,000
To all you folks who are pounding on the the Royals GM. I have a thought for you.
We can have a league of 30 owners in an auction style format with 40 man rosters. You can pick your team from above for how much money you can spend for the draft.
I will be the Yankees and you can be some small market team. After the season is over we can review your contracts. We will then discover why you did not win.
Omaha South
Originally posted by LONG GONE:
Every GM give's out bad contracts its part of the business. Have you ever made a bad fantasy pick? I suppose not.
How about the Red Sox 2010 Pay Roll. Do they have any bad contracts?
1 John Lackey 18,700,000
2 J.D. Drew 14,000,000
3 David Ortiz 13,000,000
4 Josh Beckett 12,100,000
5 Jonathan Papelbon 9,350,000
6 Adrian Beltre 9,000,000
7 Bill Hall 8,525,000
8 Daisuke Matsuzaka 8,333,333
9 Victor Martinez 7,700,000
10 Marco Scutaro 5,500,000
11 Jon Lester 3,750,000
12 Tim Wakefield 3,500,000
13 Jason Varitek 3,000,000
14 Hideki Okajima 2,750,000
15 Felipe Lopez 1,000,000
16 Clay Buchholz 443,000
17 Jed Lowrie 434,000
18 Scott Atchison 420,000
19 Jarrod Saltalamacchia 418,580
20 Daniel Bard 415,500
21 Eric Patterson 405,000
Also remember the Boston Red Sox won the bidding rights to Matsuzaka with a bid of $51,111,111.11
Which does not show up in his annual salary.
If your a small market team the only chance you have is in building a minor league system. When your system is ready to produce you can expand payroll for a 2 or 3 year window. Then your window will close until the system is ready to produce again.
The Royals are on the right track. Even with a few bad contract that have handcuffed them. The more important thing is the window may start to open for them. Hey, you forgot that powerhouse of the middle infield, Julio Lugo, who took home a cool $9,250,000 for not playing.
I'm in the wrong line of work.
Every GM give's out bad contracts its part of the business. Have you ever made a bad fantasy pick? I suppose not.
How about the Red Sox 2010 Pay Roll. Do they have any bad contracts?
1 John Lackey 18,700,000
2 J.D. Drew 14,000,000
3 David Ortiz 13,000,000
4 Josh Beckett 12,100,000
5 Jonathan Papelbon 9,350,000
6 Adrian Beltre 9,000,000
7 Bill Hall 8,525,000
8 Daisuke Matsuzaka 8,333,333
9 Victor Martinez 7,700,000
10 Marco Scutaro 5,500,000
11 Jon Lester 3,750,000
12 Tim Wakefield 3,500,000
13 Jason Varitek 3,000,000
14 Hideki Okajima 2,750,000
15 Felipe Lopez 1,000,000
16 Clay Buchholz 443,000
17 Jed Lowrie 434,000
18 Scott Atchison 420,000
19 Jarrod Saltalamacchia 418,580
20 Daniel Bard 415,500
21 Eric Patterson 405,000
Also remember the Boston Red Sox won the bidding rights to Matsuzaka with a bid of $51,111,111.11
Which does not show up in his annual salary.
If your a small market team the only chance you have is in building a minor league system. When your system is ready to produce you can expand payroll for a 2 or 3 year window. Then your window will close until the system is ready to produce again.
The Royals are on the right track. Even with a few bad contract that have handcuffed them. The more important thing is the window may start to open for them. Hey, you forgot that powerhouse of the middle infield, Julio Lugo, who took home a cool $9,250,000 for not playing.
I'm in the wrong line of work.
If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up.--Hunter S. Thompson
Omaha South
I ran a league like that Kelly. The Yankees didn't win. The best GM's were those that made good choices with at-value players and hit on some value players.
The guys that didn't win, and I don't think will ever win, were those that paid full-value for mediocre vets while loading up on high-risk rookies. Even if you hit on a few rookies, you're not likely to be in contention if you can't judge established talent and their value.
The guys that didn't win, and I don't think will ever win, were those that paid full-value for mediocre vets while loading up on high-risk rookies. Even if you hit on a few rookies, you're not likely to be in contention if you can't judge established talent and their value.
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NorCalAtlFan
- Posts: 1258
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:00 pm
- Contact:
Omaha South
I miss that league
Omaha South
Originally posted by NorCalAtlFan:
I miss that league Maybe a 2011 revival?
Perhaps Kelly's Yankees and Dayton Moore's Prospects & Dreams could join the lge.
[ December 15, 2010, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
I miss that league Maybe a 2011 revival?
Perhaps Kelly's Yankees and Dayton Moore's Prospects & Dreams could join the lge.
[ December 15, 2010, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
Omaha South
Oh no....
If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up.--Hunter S. Thompson
Omaha South
You are WRONG KJ DUKE. You ran a draft.....not an Auction.
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NorCalAtlFan
- Posts: 1258
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:00 pm
- Contact:
Omaha South
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by NorCalAtlFan:
I miss that league Maybe a 2011 revival?
Perhaps Kelly's Yankees and Dayton Moore's Prospects & Dreams could join the lge. [/QUOTE]you had me at maybe.
quote:Originally posted by NorCalAtlFan:
I miss that league Maybe a 2011 revival?
Perhaps Kelly's Yankees and Dayton Moore's Prospects & Dreams could join the lge. [/QUOTE]you had me at maybe.
Omaha South
Originally posted by LONG GONE:
You are WRONG KJ DUKE. You ran a draft.....not an Auction. ... correct, but I think it makes my point on what works even with a huge budget to acquire high-priced talent.
[ December 15, 2010, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
You are WRONG KJ DUKE. You ran a draft.....not an Auction. ... correct, but I think it makes my point on what works even with a huge budget to acquire high-priced talent.
[ December 15, 2010, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
Omaha South
If you had 30 teams with 40 man rosters in an auction. Small payroll teams will not win. You will over pay just to have John Bowker on your team.
Omaha South
Originally posted by LONG GONE:
If you had 30 teams with 40 man rosters in an auction. Small payroll teams will not win. You will over pay just to have John Bowker on your team. 26 Texas Rangers 55,168,114
29 San Diego Padres 38,199,300
These two came very close.
If you had 30 teams with 40 man rosters in an auction. Small payroll teams will not win. You will over pay just to have John Bowker on your team. 26 Texas Rangers 55,168,114
29 San Diego Padres 38,199,300
These two came very close.
Omaha South
You have made my point about small markets. The only way for them to win is at the DRAFT and international scouting. That's how small markets win.
Omaha South
The Rangers are winning because of the farm system from years past. Combined with selling current farm players for hired guns at a reduced payroll. That is called an open window.
Padres is massive fluctuation to the up side(lucky). Thats why the GM traded AGON.
Padres is massive fluctuation to the up side(lucky). Thats why the GM traded AGON.
Omaha South
[ December 15, 2010, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
Omaha South
Originally posted by LONG GONE:
The Rangers are winning because of the farm system from years past. Combined with selling current farm players for hired guns at a reduced payroll. That is called an open window.
Padres is massive fluctuation to the up side(lucky). Thats why the GM traded AGON. Gonzo and Heath bell kept them in the game. Those were good trades enabling a winning team. If they instead pissed away money on Jose guillen and meche to fill those spots they wouldn't have sniffed a winning season. Difference between good GM and bad GM.
The Rangers are winning because of the farm system from years past. Combined with selling current farm players for hired guns at a reduced payroll. That is called an open window.
Padres is massive fluctuation to the up side(lucky). Thats why the GM traded AGON. Gonzo and Heath bell kept them in the game. Those were good trades enabling a winning team. If they instead pissed away money on Jose guillen and meche to fill those spots they wouldn't have sniffed a winning season. Difference between good GM and bad GM.
Omaha South
I have news for you KJ. The Padres are not very good. Maybe in 2 to 3 years if the players from the Agon trade pan out there window will be open.
They have one of the most important pieces in place with Matt Latos.
The trades that you are talking about came from GM Kevin Towers. You ripped him in the past and said he should be fired. Are you now telling me he is a great GM?
They have one of the most important pieces in place with Matt Latos.
The trades that you are talking about came from GM Kevin Towers. You ripped him in the past and said he should be fired. Are you now telling me he is a great GM?