Some NFBC Slow Draft Early Results

[Gekko]

Originally posted by The Franchise:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

Jason Heyward is one player who could easily return first round numbers that you can currently draft in the 4th round. I will see your "Heyward" and raise you "Bruce" [/QUOTE]zero chance bruce can do that.

[The Franchise]

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by The Franchise:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

Jason Heyward is one player who could easily return first round numbers that you can currently draft in the 4th round. I will see your "Heyward" and raise you "Bruce" [/QUOTE]zero chance bruce can do that. [/QUOTE]Do what? Sorry those numbers are inflated. I'm just talking about getting 1st RD value.

[Raskol]

Originally posted by The Franchise:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by The Franchise:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

Jason Heyward is one player who could easily return first round numbers that you can currently draft in the 4th round. I will see your "Heyward" and raise you "Bruce" [/QUOTE]zero chance bruce can do that. [/QUOTE]Do what? Sorry those numbers are inflated. I'm just talking about getting 1st RD value. [/QUOTE]Those are fan projections, so take them with a huge grain of salt; preferably with a slice of lime and a nice reposado tequila.

Can Jay-Hey do that? Sure and he probably will someday. Will it come when he's 21 years old? Who knows but that's why we play this great game.

[Rainiers]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Here's another pay Slow Draft league being held right now:



Round 1:

1. Albert Pujols

2. Miguel Cabrera

3. Hanley Ramirez

4. Carlos Gonzalez

5. Troy Tulowitzki

6. Joey Votto

7. Ryan Braun

8. Carl Crawford

9. Robinson Cano

10. Adrian Gonzalez

11. Evan Longoria

12. Alex Rodriguez

13. David Wright

14. Mark Teixeira

15. Chase Utley



Round 2:

16. Matt Holliday

17. Ryan Howard

18. Kevin Youkilis

19. Josh Hamilton

20. Roy Halladay

21. Prince Fielder

22. Matt Kemp

23. Ryan Zimmerman

24. Dustin Pedroia

25. Jose Reyes

26. Joe Mauer

27. Adam Wainwright

28. Nelson Cruz

29. Tim Lincecum

30. Felix Hernandez



Round 3:

31. Victor Martinez

32. Andrew McCutchen

33. Shin-Soo Choo

34. Jose Bautista

35. Alex Rios

36. Justin Upton

37. Adam Dunn

38. CC Sabathia

39. Cliff Lee

40. Jacoby Ellsbury

41. Ian Kinsler

42. Jon Lester

43. Jimmy Rollins

44. Buster Posey

45. Kendry Morales



Round 4:

46. Dan Haren

47. Jason Heyward

48. B.J. Upton

49. Clayton Kershaw

50. Justin Verlander

51. David Price

52. Justin Morneau

53. Brandon Phillips

54. Ubaldo Jimenez

55. Josh Johnson

56. Mike Stanton

57. Adrian Beltre

58. Dan Uggla

59. Brian McCann

60. Jayson Werth



Round 5:

61. Zack

62. Rickie Weeks

63. Cole Hamels

64. Jered Weaver

65. Mat Latos

66. Yovani Gallardo

67. Ichiro Suzuki

68. Roy Oswalt

69. Alexei Ramirez

70. Drew Stubbs

71. Derek Jeter

72. Andre Ethier

73. Tommy Hanson

74. Francisco Liriano

75. Hunter Pence



Round 6:

76. Michael Young

77. Elvis Andrus

78. Jay Bruce

79. Paul Konerko

80. Corey Hart

81. Matt Cain

82. Chris Young

83. Billy Butler

84. Mark Reynolds

85. Colby Rasmus

86. Aramis Ramirez

87. Carlos Marmol

88. Chris Carpenter

89. Heath Bell

90. Pedro Alvarez



Thoughts? In a different slow draft, I thought about doing what two teams did in this draft...take two first baseman in the first two rounds. I've read advice that you should not do this. Common sense also seems to dictate that it is not a good idea to do that early in the draft, so I chickened out from doing it even though I thought two first baseman were the best players available to me when my first two picks came around.



Has anyone ever doubled up early in a draft? did it hurt or help you?

[The Franchise]

Originally posted by Raskol:

quote:Originally posted by The Franchise:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by The Franchise:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

Jason Heyward is one player who could easily return first round numbers that you can currently draft in the 4th round. I will see your "Heyward" and raise you "Bruce" [/QUOTE]zero chance bruce can do that. [/QUOTE]Do what? Sorry those numbers are inflated. I'm just talking about getting 1st RD value. [/QUOTE]Those are fan projections, so take them with a huge grain of salt; preferably with a slice of lime and a nice reposado tequila.

Can Jay-Hey do that? Sure and he probably will someday. Will it come when he's 21 years old? Who knows but that's why we play this great game. [/QUOTE]I definitely agree with you. I was just speculating on some other players who could go 1st rd next year much like Cargo did last year (drafted 5th rd / now a 1st rd pick)

[Gekko]

Originally posted by The Franchise:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by The Franchise:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

Jason Heyward is one player who could easily return first round numbers that you can currently draft in the 4th round. I will see your "Heyward" and raise you "Bruce" [/QUOTE]zero chance bruce can do that. [/QUOTE]Do what? Sorry those numbers are inflated. I'm just talking about getting 1st RD value. [/QUOTE]how many OF do you see being drafted in the 1st round that steal less than 10sb? zero chance bruce can return 1st round #'s.

[Vander]

Originally posted by Rainiers:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Here's another pay Slow Draft league being held right now:



Round 1:

1. Albert Pujols

2. Miguel Cabrera

3. Hanley Ramirez

4. Carlos Gonzalez

5. Troy Tulowitzki

6. Joey Votto

7. Ryan Braun

8. Carl Crawford

9. Robinson Cano

10. Adrian Gonzalez

11. Evan Longoria

12. Alex Rodriguez

13. David Wright

14. Mark Teixeira

15. Chase Utley



Round 2:

16. Matt Holliday

17. Ryan Howard

18. Kevin Youkilis

19. Josh Hamilton

20. Roy Halladay

21. Prince Fielder

22. Matt Kemp

23. Ryan Zimmerman

24. Dustin Pedroia

25. Jose Reyes

26. Joe Mauer

27. Adam Wainwright

28. Nelson Cruz

29. Tim Lincecum

30. Felix Hernandez



Round 3:

31. Victor Martinez

32. Andrew McCutchen

33. Shin-Soo Choo

34. Jose Bautista

35. Alex Rios

36. Justin Upton

37. Adam Dunn

38. CC Sabathia

39. Cliff Lee

40. Jacoby Ellsbury

41. Ian Kinsler

42. Jon Lester

43. Jimmy Rollins

44. Buster Posey

45. Kendry Morales



Round 4:

46. Dan Haren

47. Jason Heyward

48. B.J. Upton

49. Clayton Kershaw

50. Justin Verlander

51. David Price

52. Justin Morneau

53. Brandon Phillips

54. Ubaldo Jimenez

55. Josh Johnson

56. Mike Stanton

57. Adrian Beltre

58. Dan Uggla

59. Brian McCann

60. Jayson Werth



Round 5:

61. Zack

62. Rickie Weeks

63. Cole Hamels

64. Jered Weaver

65. Mat Latos

66. Yovani Gallardo

67. Ichiro Suzuki

68. Roy Oswalt

69. Alexei Ramirez

70. Drew Stubbs

71. Derek Jeter

72. Andre Ethier

73. Tommy Hanson

74. Francisco Liriano

75. Hunter Pence



Round 6:

76. Michael Young

77. Elvis Andrus

78. Jay Bruce

79. Paul Konerko

80. Corey Hart

81. Matt Cain

82. Chris Young

83. Billy Butler

84. Mark Reynolds

85. Colby Rasmus

86. Aramis Ramirez

87. Carlos Marmol

88. Chris Carpenter

89. Heath Bell

90. Pedro Alvarez



Thoughts? In a different slow draft, I thought about doing what two teams did in this draft...take two first baseman in the first two rounds. I've read advice that you should not do this. Common sense also seems to dictate that it is not a good idea to do that early in the draft, so I chickened out from doing it even though I thought two first baseman were the best players available to me when my first two picks came around.



Has anyone ever doubled up early in a draft? did it hurt or help you? [/QUOTE]In general it's preferable that you don't fill up 1 position and draft some of several positions early. However, sometimes you just go with it if it's the best option knowing where the strengths and weaknesses of the draft will be and who can fill your needs late. Last year I took M. Cabrera and Votto in a couple leagues. Turned out just fine.

[BEF]

Originally posted by Rainiers:

In a different slow draft, I thought about doing what two teams did in this draft...take two first baseman in the first two rounds. I've read advice that you should not do this. Common sense also seems to dictate that it is not a good idea to do that early in the draft, so I chickened out from doing it even though I thought two first baseman were the best players available to me when my first two picks came around.



Has anyone ever doubled up early in a draft? did it hurt or help you? In Slow Draft #3 ($150), Team #10 took Votto in the first, Teixera in the 2nd and Morneau in the 4th. Further, he didn't take his first outfielder until the 13th round, so his three 1B studs seem to have been counterbalanced with an OF (through 40 rounds) of Swisher, A-Jax, Bourjos, Ludwick, Pie, Fukudome, Trout, Guillen and Cousins.

[Spartacus]

Originally posted by Vander:

quote:Originally posted by Rainiers:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Here's another pay Slow Draft league being held right now:



Round 1:

1. Albert Pujols

2. Miguel Cabrera

3. Hanley Ramirez

4. Carlos Gonzalez

5. Troy Tulowitzki

6. Joey Votto

7. Ryan Braun

8. Carl Crawford

9. Robinson Cano

10. Adrian Gonzalez

11. Evan Longoria

12. Alex Rodriguez

13. David Wright

14. Mark Teixeira

15. Chase Utley



Round 2:

16. Matt Holliday

17. Ryan Howard

18. Kevin Youkilis

19. Josh Hamilton

20. Roy Halladay

21. Prince Fielder

22. Matt Kemp

23. Ryan Zimmerman

24. Dustin Pedroia

25. Jose Reyes

26. Joe Mauer

27. Adam Wainwright

28. Nelson Cruz

29. Tim Lincecum

30. Felix Hernandez



Round 3:

31. Victor Martinez

32. Andrew McCutchen

33. Shin-Soo Choo

34. Jose Bautista

35. Alex Rios

36. Justin Upton

37. Adam Dunn

38. CC Sabathia

39. Cliff Lee

40. Jacoby Ellsbury

41. Ian Kinsler

42. Jon Lester

43. Jimmy Rollins

44. Buster Posey

45. Kendry Morales



Round 4:

46. Dan Haren

47. Jason Heyward

48. B.J. Upton

49. Clayton Kershaw

50. Justin Verlander

51. David Price

52. Justin Morneau

53. Brandon Phillips

54. Ubaldo Jimenez

55. Josh Johnson

56. Mike Stanton

57. Adrian Beltre

58. Dan Uggla

59. Brian McCann

60. Jayson Werth



Round 5:

61. Zack

62. Rickie Weeks

63. Cole Hamels

64. Jered Weaver

65. Mat Latos

66. Yovani Gallardo

67. Ichiro Suzuki

68. Roy Oswalt

69. Alexei Ramirez

70. Drew Stubbs

71. Derek Jeter

72. Andre Ethier

73. Tommy Hanson

74. Francisco Liriano

75. Hunter Pence



Round 6:

76. Michael Young

77. Elvis Andrus

78. Jay Bruce

79. Paul Konerko

80. Corey Hart

81. Matt Cain

82. Chris Young

83. Billy Butler

84. Mark Reynolds

85. Colby Rasmus

86. Aramis Ramirez

87. Carlos Marmol

88. Chris Carpenter

89. Heath Bell

90. Pedro Alvarez



Thoughts? In a different slow draft, I thought about doing what two teams did in this draft...take two first baseman in the first two rounds. I've read advice that you should not do this. Common sense also seems to dictate that it is not a good idea to do that early in the draft, so I chickened out from doing it even though I thought two first baseman were the best players available to me when my first two picks came around.



Has anyone ever doubled up early in a draft? did it hurt or help you? [/QUOTE]In general it's preferable that you don't fill up 1 position and draft some of several positions early. However, sometimes you just go with it if it's the best option knowing where the strengths and weaknesses of the draft will be and who can fill your needs late. Last year I took M. Cabrera and Votto in a couple leagues. Turned out just fine. [/QUOTE]I like to double up when the opportunity presents itself. It's a fairly aggressive move that tends to put pressure on that position throughout the draft, often moving other players from that position a little higher than their ADP might have otherwise have been. The bump isn't huge, but if just one player falls to you who might not have otherwise have made it due to this maneuver, well, as GG said earlier one player can make all the difference. Just an FYI here, this was the SCL not a slow draft.

[Rog]

last year I had the 12th pick

I took howard and fielder

looking for the hrs,rbis,runs

they started out slow my team never recovered

[Thunder]

in a recent draft I took Adrian at 1.10, came back with Prince at 2.6...another owner took Teix at 1.14, came back with Howard at 2.2...personally, i like either start.

[Rainiers]

Thanks for all your responses, i appreciate your insights.



Ironically, putting together some of the pieces of information you all gave me, I came to a funny conclusion.



One of the people whose advice I followed not to draft two players from the same position, as it turns out, is one of drafters who took two 1B-men with his first two picks!



Obviously, not a hard and fast rule for him....

[Rainiers]

Hey Bill, I like your picks..they were the same two first basemen I was going to take at the turn, ended up with Agon and David Wright instead. I see a big turn around year for Fielder if he doesn't get traded to pitcher's park...



[ January 11, 2011, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Rainiers ]

[Thunder]

the best draft "results" team i had last year, i had pick #1. i took albert 1.1 and joey 2.15. sometimes, it works out OK.

[Rainiers]

man, that did work out ok..

[Rainiers]

You know, one of the things I like about the strategy this year for taking two firstbasemen late in the first round and early in the second is that it can help prevent someone with an early pick from getting Hanley or Tulo AND a stud First baseman

[The Franchise]

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by The Franchise:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by The Franchise:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

Jason Heyward is one player who could easily return first round numbers that you can currently draft in the 4th round. I will see your "Heyward" and raise you "Bruce" [/QUOTE]zero chance bruce can do that. [/QUOTE]Do what? Sorry those numbers are inflated. I'm just talking about getting 1st RD value. [/QUOTE]how many OF do you see being drafted in the 1st round that steal less than 10sb? zero chance bruce can return 1st round #'s. [/QUOTE]You saying Bruce can't steal 10 bags?

[Thunder]

Originally posted by Rainiers:

You know, one of the things I like about the strategy this year for taking two firstbasemen late in the first round and early in the second is that it can help prevent someone with an early pick from getting Hanley or Tulo AND a stud First baseman yeah, but if you do the 1B-1B strategy, you have a lot of catching up to do with SB's and maybe BA.

[Edwards Kings]

Bruce over Heyward in my (poor, tattered) book. Both have problem making contact some time, but both will take a pitch. Heyward has good speed, maybe as high as 15-20, which is a huge plus since last year he had trouble putting the ball in the air and needed the legs to stay out of trouble. Heyward's power is ok and will grow, but is going into only his sophomore MLB year. He has some more learning to do. Remember, "sophomore" comes from two Greek words, "sophos" (wise) and "moros" (foolish).



However, Bruce has three years under his belt and is only like 23. He is left-handed hitting half his games in Great American. Health (a potential issue to be sure) is the only thing keeping him from 600+ AB. Bruce's power is elite and may grow which is awesome as he hits so many LD and FB (20% and 44% respectively last year). He actually profiles better that Votto in that respect. If he gets his contact rate back up into the high 70's, his BA will be good if not great. He has enough speed to chunk in 5-10 SB, too.



For either, this could be the year. Neither are worth a 1st round pick yet, but odds are in 2012 Bruce will be closer than Heyward.

[Hells Satans]

Unless Heyward can dramatically improve this year on a 55% groundball rate (which he will eventually), he'll be lucky to be worth a 4th round pick. Right now he's a much more valuable real-life player than he has a fantasy player.

[Greg Ambrosius]

I'm glad that these early Slow Draft results are bringing some debate and discussion. Let's keep the results coming so that all of you can continue your preparations for Draft Day:



Round 1:

1. Albert Pujols

2. Miguel Cabrera

3. Troy Tulowitzki

4. Hanley Ramirez

5. Joey Votto

6. Carl Crawford

7. Robinson Cano

8. Roy Halladay

9. Carlos Gonzalez

10. Evan Longoria

11. Ryan Braun

12. Alex Rodriguez

13. Chase Utley

14. David Wright

15. Adrian Gonzalez



Round 2:

16. Nelson Cruz

17. Mark Teixeira

18. Tim Lincecum

19. Josh Hamilton

20. Matt Holliday

21. Prince Fielder

22. Ryan Zimmerman

23. Matt Kemp

24. Ryan Howard

25. Felix Hernandez

26. Andrew McCutchen

27. Jose Reyes

28. Joe Mauer

29. Adam Dunn

30. Dustin Pedroia



Round 3:

31. Justin Upton

32. Victor Martinez

33. Cliff Lee

34. Kevin Youkilis

35. Justin Morneau

36. Jason Heyward

37. Brian McCann

38. Adam Wainwright

39. Ian Kinsler

40. Jimmy Rollins

41. Buster Posey

42. Kendry Morales

43. Ichiro Suzuki

44. Shin-Soo Choo

45. Dan Uggla



Round 4:

46. Alex Rios

47. Jayson Werth

48. CC Sabathia

49. Jacoby Ellsbury

50. Jose Bautista

51. Jon Lester

52. Ubaldo Jimenez

53. Brandon Phillips

54. Clayton Kershaw

55. Mike Stanton

56. Rickie Weeks

57. Adrian Beltre

58. Justin Verlander

59. Drew Stubbs

60. Andre Ethier



Round 5:

61. Zack Greinke

62. Pedro Alvarez

63. B.J. Upton

64. Cole Hamels

65. Josh Johnson

66. Francisco Liriano

67. Michael Young

68. Alexei Ramirez

69. Hunter Pence

70. Martin Prado

71. David Price

72. Jered Weaver

73. Aramis Ramirez

74. Shane Victorino

75. Paul Konerko



Round 6:

76. Dan Haren

77. Jay Bruce

78. Carlos Quentin

79. Brian Roberts

80. Derek Jeter

81. Chris Young

82. Tommy Hanson

83. Chris Carpenter

84. Matt Cain

85. Aaron Hill

86. Curtis Granderson

87. Corey Hart

88. Carlos Santana

89. Mark Reynolds

90. Max Scherzer



Thoughts?

[Greg Ambrosius]

Here's one more to chew on:



Round 1:

Albert Pujols

2. Miguel Cabrera

3. Carlos Gonzalez

4. Carl Crawford

5. Troy Tulowitzki

6. Hanley Ramirez

7. Joey Votto

8. Robinson Cano

9. Ryan Braun

10. Adrian Gonzalez

11. Evan Longoria

12. Alex Rodriguez

13. Josh Hamilton

14. David Wright

15. Matt Holliday



Round 2:

16. Roy Halladay

17. Prince Fielder

18. Ryan Howard

19. Joe Mauer

20. Mark Teixeira

21. Chase Utley

22. Matt Kemp

23. Kevin Youkilis

24. Ryan Zimmerman

25. Dustin Pedroia

26. Andrew McCutchen

27. Tim Lincecum

28. Nelson Cruz

29. Shin-Soo Choo

30. Jose Reyes



Round 3:

31. Victor Martinez

32. Justin Upton

33. Adam Dunn

34. Adam Wainwright

35. Buster Posey

36. Felix Hernandez

37. Cliff Lee

38. Kendry Morales

39. Brian McCann

40. Jimmy Rollins

41. Jason Heyward

42. Ian Kinsler

43. Brandon Phillips

44. Jayson Werth

45. Adrian Beltre



Round 4:

46. Jered Weaver

47. Jacoby Ellsbury

48. Michael Young

49. Alex Rios

50. Andre Ethier

51. Jon Lester

52. Dan Uggla

53. Clayton Kershaw

54. Jose Bautista

55. CC Sabathia

56. Justin Verlander

57. Justin Morneau

58. Ichiro Suzuki

59. Rickie Weeks

60. Josh Johnson



Round 5:

61. Hunter Pence

62. Mike Stanton

63. Martin Prado

64. Zack Greinke

65. Alexei Ramirez

66. Derek Jeter

67. B.J. Upton

68. Ubaldo Jimenez

69. Tommy Hanson

70. Shane Victorino

71. Chris Young

72. Dan Haren

73. Cole Hamels

74. Carlos Santana

75. Paul Konerko



Round 6:

76. Drew Stubbs

77. Matt Cain

78. Juan Pierre

79. Curtis Granderson

80. Jay Bruce

81. David Price

82. Mat Latos

83. Corey Hart

84. Roy Oswalt

85. Aramis Ramirez

86. Michael Bourn

87. Delmon Young

88. Chris Carpenter

89. Ben Zobrist

90. Max Scherzer



Thoughts?

[The Franchise]

Someone needs to tell GG that Heyward is not going in the 4th anymore.





Just thinking out loud....... How do you pass up Youk and Pedroia at the 2-spot in 2nd rd and again in 3rd but take Dunn when you have Cabrera already?





Hanley going 6th seems about right to me. Call me crazy.

[Gekko]

Originally posted by The Franchise:

Someone needs to tell GG that Heyward is not going in the 4th anymore.

Nelson - He will be an early 3rd to mid 3rd rounder by the time the main event rolls around. Legit chance at 1st round value.

[Ryan C]

He already is in drafts I've been in.



[ January 12, 2011, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Ryan C ]