NFBC Mixed Auction Prices

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:46 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by Fourslot40:

So, if NASA did your kid's science project for a fee and he got an A for it... that's ok? We're all adults here, right?

Not a good analogy. [/QUOTE]Ok, what if you had Kurt Vonnegut write your report on Kurt Vonnegut? Any better?

[ January 31, 2011, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:49 am

Even if you had the EXACT prices it'd then morph into a salary contract league. Similar to a CDM game. You still have to mix and match, put a team together and guess the players correctly. Getting a good handle on prices helps but in and of itself doesn't bring home the bacon.

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:26 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

Even if you had the EXACT prices it'd then morph into a salary contract league. Similar to a CDM game. You still have to mix and match, put a team together and guess the players correctly. Getting a good handle on prices helps but in and of itself doesn't bring home the bacon. I absolutely agree. You just never know what will happen on draft day.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:52 am

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by Fourslot40:

So, if NASA did your kid's science project for a fee and he got an A for it... that's ok? We're all adults here, right?

Not a good analogy. [/QUOTE]Ok, what if you had Kurt Vonnegut wrote your report on Kurt Vonnegut? Any better? [/QUOTE]Sure.

But Vonnegut has trouble hitting the curve.

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:00 am

Don't know what Shawn has put up there in his post, but i think those values would be useless for a Mixed Auction.

[ January 31, 2011, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Bama ]

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:16 am

Originally posted by Bama:

Don't know what Shawn has put up there in his post, but i think those values would be useless for a Mixed Auction. Maybe for a guy like you, but I used those numbers in the auction we did together and they seemed to work fine. Maybe your should read the first couple of lines Ken.

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:22 am

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

So, if NASA did your kid's science project for a fee and he got an A for it... that's ok? A proper anology would be: If one of the smartest kid in the class helped your kid study, he took his science test and received an A. Would you consider that ok? I know I would.

[ January 31, 2011, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: JamesH ]

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:36 am

Originally posted by JamesH:

quote:Originally posted by Fourslot40:

So, if NASA did your kid's science project for a fee and he got an A for it... that's ok? A proper anology would be: If one of the smartest kid in the class helped your kid study, he took his science test and received an A. Would you consider that ok? I know I would. [/QUOTE]Taken a step further, this is an open book test with no plain simple answers. 2+2=5 could be right.

I noticed Jose Bautista wasn't on Shawn's list. At least I didn't see him in the long list of names. I also saw CarGo rated as high as McLouth. A 'lesser player' might have bid on Bautista and Cargo ahead of Shawn and that alone, may have springboarded him over Shawn in the standings.

It's the great equalizer in this hobby. We can garner information from 100's of sources, but unless we process it correctly, and apply it to our drafts in the same way, it is all rendered meaningless.

jim.s · Post by **jim.s** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:43 am

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

Shawn,

In my opinion, learning for yourself is part of the experience. There's no reward for winning with someone else's preparation. There's no accomplishment. Now, if you put that info out there it's different. Use it as a tool.

But, asking for it and even willing to pay for it, is like someone asking for the answers to a quiz because they couldn't study.

Just my opinion. Everyone is different. It seems like you are treating this like a free league. In playing for high stakes you should use EVERY piece of relevant data that you can legally get your hands on.

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:08 am

Originally posted by jim.s:

quote:Originally posted by Fourslot40:

Shawn,

In my opinion, learning for yourself is part of the experience. There's no reward for winning with someone else's preparation. There's no accomplishment. Now, if you put that info out there it's different. Use it as a tool.

But, asking for it and even willing to pay for it, is like someone asking for the answers to a quiz because they couldn't study.

Just my opinion. Everyone is different. It seems like you are treating this like a free league. In playing for high stakes you should use EVERY piece of relevant data that you can legally get your hands on. [/QUOTE]Why wouldn't you prepare the same for a free league? I don't see the difference. Commit to something and dedicate yourself to winning or don't do it at all.

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:24 am

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

quote:Originally posted by jim.s:

quote:Originally posted by Fourslot40:

Shawn,

In my opinion, learning for yourself is part of the experience. There's no reward for winning with someone else's preparation. There's no accomplishment. Now, if you put that info out there it's different. Use it as a tool.

But, asking for it and even willing to pay for it, is like someone asking for the answers to a quiz because they couldn't study.

Just my opinion. Everyone is different. It seems like you are treating this like a free league. In playing for high stakes you should use EVERY piece of relevant data that you can legally get your hands on. [/QUOTE]Why wouldn't you prepare the same for a free league? I don't see the difference. Commit to something and dedicate yourself to winning or don't do it at all. [/QUOTE]If your telling the truth, you would be the first person i know who treats a free or $125 league the same as a high stakes league. As for the information i dont really see what the big deal is, What you pay for a certain player is not a big factor in the success of your team.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:23 am

I find this a very interesting debate and in this case I think you're a little offbase Fourslot.

Your analogy using the "answers to a quiz" isn't really accurate because the cheat sheet or projections or dollar values aren't the answers. The answers are in how you put all of this together in building your team.

A better analogy might be that the cheat sheet or projections or dollar values are merely the ingredients to a great recipe. However if you don't know how to put it all together, you're still going to have a lousy meal.

Glenn

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:24 am

Ok, how about this then... is it appropriate for the Steelers to ask for the Packers playbook?

OR .. How about if James Harrison goes on Twitter and offers Aaron Rodgers $50 for a few plays?

Yeah, I get the notion of wanting information, but is that not unethical and embarrassing?

[ January 31, 2011, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]

Dawg · Post by **Dawg** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:43 am

Sorry to continue this unsolvable riddle, but as my football coach used to say "they can have our playbook if they want it. They are going to need a lot more than that to beat us"

The Franchise · Post by **The Franchise** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:57 am

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

Ok, how about this then... is it appropriate for the Steelers to ask for the Packers playbook?

OR .. How about if James Harrison goes on Twitter and offers Aaron Rodgers $50 for a few plays?

Yeah, I get the notion of wanting information, but is that not unethical and embarrassing? You keep comparing apples to oranges. Just use the comparison that makes the most sense.

What is the difference between buying a subscription from a baseball site and using their Auction values/cheat sheets or getting it from a player who is willing to offer it up to help someone who is new to Auction drafts or just wants help, period?

You still need to know/study on how to construct your team properly. Based on your analogy, the only way Shawn gives him the answers is if he sits at the draft table himself and drafts the team for him.

As far as unethical and embarrassing.............

There is nothing unethical or embarrassing about looking for help to make you a better player. This is not your local league where bragging rights are more important than winning and money.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:58 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by JamesH:

quote:Originally posted by Fourslot40:

So, if NASA did your kid's science project for a fee and he got an A for it... that's ok? A proper anology would be: If one of the smartest kid in the class helped your kid study, he took his science test and received an A. Would you consider that ok? I know I would. [/QUOTE]Taken a step further, this is an open book test with no plain simple answers. 2+2=5 could be right.

I noticed Jose Bautista wasn't on Shawn's list. At least I didn't see him in the long list of names. I also saw CarGo rated as high as McLouth. A 'lesser player' might have bid on Bautista and Cargo ahead of Shawn and that alone, may have springboarded him over Shawn in the standings.

It's the great equalizer in this hobby. We can garner information from 100's of sources, but unless we process it correctly, and apply it to our drafts in the same way, it is all rendered meaningless. [/QUOTE]I think the key part of auctions is understanding the action players. Last year Carlos Gonzalez and Andrew McCutchen were those type of players. You know when you sit at the draft table they are going to draw interest from multiple owners. You have decide if you are all in or what is the break point in your plan.

When I'm using the prices I used, I know Albert Pujols is going to go for $45 in most mixed auctions, but his real value should be in the range I used. Each player is usually willing to over spend on a player or two.

In the Ultimate auction, I know the elite players will go higher based on all the angle people play in that league. In a way, you can call it the Stanard markup. If he's going to spend $230 on offense, the other players are willing to fight for the premium pieces in the auction.

His best chance to execute his plan was the first $1300 auction he did in 2009. It worked well on Friday, but on Sunday the cat was out of the bag. The other owners challenged him for all the elite talent.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:13 am

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

Ok, how about this then... is it appropriate for the Steelers to ask for the Packers playbook?

OR .. How about if James Harrison goes on Twitter and offers Aaron Rodgers $50 for a few plays?

Yeah, I get the notion of wanting information, but is that not unethical and embarrassing? A couple years ago, I was doing a high stakes football league. Z-Man at the draft table asked if anyone was willing to sell their cheat sheet for $100 while he was on the clock. I knew I had some weak cheat sheet from some website and I sold it to him during his pick. I knew where the names were that I was interested in, but he didn't.

As far as this discussion goes, I'd like to see more players play in auction leagues. I'll give the prices, but I won't give you the one with highlighted colors of the players I'm interested in.

Most players buy magazines for auctions prices so they have a feel for the market, but most of time this is bad information. They randomly assign prices which may end being 20 % higher than the actual spending budget.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:14 am

This topic has kept my mind occupied most of the day. Going through the boredom of a normal day, it's a good thing.

Fourslot, let's use your example of the kid in school. Lets say that in his history book, it states that Oswalt shot Kennedy from the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository and leaves it at that.

As a teacher, I would reward the student for looking at other sources and introducing the 'grassy knoll' and many conspiracy theories that have arisen since then.

If he actually paid for this information, I would reward the 'go-gettedness' and yearning for learning more about the subject.

Thanks for the foreplay of the mind most of the day, much appreciated

The Mighty Men · Post by **The Mighty Men** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:17 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

This topic has kept my mind occupied most of the day. Going through the boredom of a normal day, it's a good thing.

Fourslot, let's use your example of the kid in school. Lets say that in his history book, it states that Oswalt shot Kennedy from the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository and leaves it at that.

As a teacher, I would reward the student for looking at other sources and introducing the 'grassy knoll' and many conspiracy theories that have arisen since then.

If he actually paid for this information, I would reward the 'go-gettedness' and yearning for learning more about the subject.

Thanks for the foreplay of the mind most of the day, much appreciated You know you spend too much time on baseball and not on real life when this happens - "Oswalt", and not "Oswald".

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:18 am

Originally posted by The Mighty Men:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

This topic has kept my mind occupied most of the day. Going through the boredom of a normal day, it's a good thing.

Fourslot, let's use your example of the kid in school. Lets say that in his history book, it states that Oswalt shot Kennedy from the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository and leaves it at that.

As a teacher, I would reward the student for looking at other sources and introducing the 'grassy knoll' and many conspiracy theories that have arisen since then.

If he actually paid for this information, I would reward the 'go-gettedness' and yearning for learning more about the subject.

Thanks for the foreplay of the mind most of the day, much appreciated You know you spend too much time on baseball and not on real life when this happens - "Oswalt", and not "Oswald".

[/QUOTE]Too funny

I need to go back to school!

[ January 31, 2011, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:19 am

Originally posted by The Mighty Men:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

This topic has kept my mind occupied most of the day. Going through the boredom of a normal day, it's a good thing.

Fourslot, let's use your example of the kid in school. Lets say that in his history book, it states that Oswalt shot Kennedy from the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository and leaves it at that.

As a teacher, I would reward the student for looking at other sources and introducing the 'grassy knoll' and many conspiracy theories that have arisen since then.

If he actually paid for this information, I would reward the 'go-gettedness' and yearning for learning more about the subject.

Thanks for the foreplay of the mind most of the day, much appreciated You know you spend too much time on baseball and not on real life when this happens - "Oswalt", and not "Oswald".

[/QUOTE]You think the truth about this ever comes out when someone is on their death bed?

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:20 am

Is it time for MLCL3?

The Mighty Men · Post by **The Mighty Men** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:23 am

If you look real closely, Roy Oswalt is on the grassy knoll and is in a follow through position. I think it was a fastball off JFK's noodle.

The answer is no. The "truth" as it stands now will not change.

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:29 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

This topic has kept my mind occupied most of the day. Going through the boredom of a normal day, it's a good thing.

Fourslot, let's use your example of the kid in school. Lets say that in his history book, it states that Oswalt shot Kennedy from the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository and leaves it at that.

As a teacher, I would reward the student for looking at other sources and introducing the 'grassy knoll' and many conspiracy theories that have arisen since then.

If he actually paid for this information, I would reward the 'go-gettedness' and yearning for learning more about the subject.

Thanks for the foreplay of the mind most of the day, much appreciated Dough, I enjoyed it as well. Honestly, I have no issue with anyone or how they prepare. Everyone is entitled to do what they have to do. If we were all sitting around and having a couple of beers, you would see that it's all in fun conversation and nothing else.

The analogy's are from the movie "Back to School"... one of my favorites.

[ January 31, 2011, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:08 am

Same here, Fourslot, good stuff.

I've stated that I'm not reading Shandler or any publication that has the words 'expert' or 'sleeper' on the cover.

That said, the best stuff I've read this year has been stuff penned by Shawn Childs.

He delivers with both numbers and theories without overloading you (or perhaps underwhelming, for folks wanting to know who to draft) with thoughts about who to pick.

Shawn should have a vehicle to get his stuff out in a forum for everybody soon. If NFBC folks are looking to put down a coin for more information, I would knock on Shawn's door long before Shandlers.

This isn't meant to run down Shandler, ah, never mind, maybe it is a little bit...But the major difference between them is that Shandler is written for the masses Yahoo leagues, ESPN, CBS, the NFBC, no matter the venue, we are trying to have Shandler meet our needs.

In the NFBC context, I feel it falls short.

Shawn's theories have an inherent NFBC flavor to them.

Shawn won't toot his own horn, but it is really good stuff. And if you can get your hands on it, the answer to whether there is a man on the grassy knoll becomes a lot clearer.