Lets Stop Switching Pitchers Midweek in 2012

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:13 pm

KJ,

I respect you man, but I think everyone knows the DL rule as it is stated. However, you know as well as I do, that not EVERYONE knew you could manipulate the system by squeezing in a spot start later in the weekend by removing a potentially healthy pitcher by Friday for a second start. If that was equally communicated in the rules prior to the season, then it's a non-issue, but it's not.

Like Glenn said, enough with the BS man.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:18 pm

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

KJ,

I respect you man, but I think everyone knows the DL rule as it is stated. However, you know as well as I do, that not EVERYONE knew you could manipulate the system by squeezing in a spot start later in the weekend by removing a potentially healthy pitcher by Friday for a second start. If that was equally communicated in the rules prior to the season, then it's a non-issue, but it's not.

Like Glenn said, enough with the BS man. 4, I never said everyone knew how to the use rule, I agree most didn't. It got used by other before I figured it out. But when I saw how it could be used I didn't start crying about how unfair the world is. You figure something out, you use it, life goes on. Good for the guy who did it first and shame on me for not being the first.

[ June 25, 2011, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:25 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

KJ- Why do you keep avoiding this question about the rules when I ask it- What do the rules state as the deadline for 2nd period transactions? Must be on DL by (meaning prior to) Friday at 12:01am. [/QUOTE]i know you're trying to be cute here, but you and I both know that means the pitcher that you want to take out has to be on the DL by that time in order to be replaced, Otherwise, what you're trying to say is that if a pitcher is on the DL, he has to be in your lineup by 12:01 AM Friday. I'll ask again, what is the transaction deadline for the 2nd period? [/QUOTE]You know what the rule is and you know that if a guy is red-tagged he can be benched at anytime prior to the transaction deadline. [/QUOTE]...and you know that the intent of the rule was to allow for substitutions of pitchers on the DL going into the Friday-Sunday scoring period. How about we all talk straight instead of playing games with semantics? [/QUOTE]Good idea. I'll re-write the rule for 2012 and there will be no doubt in anyone's mind about the rule. [/QUOTE]I know you've been laying your hat on how the rule is written for 2011. However as I pointed out at the end of the original thread on this subject, the way the rule is currently "written" does not allow for this transaction prior to Friday.

I find it interesting that noone but Chad and Joe, two who are on the same side of the debate as I am, has acknowledged that point. I'm assuming the reason noone from your side of the debate has commented on that point is because all you have is the loopholes allowed by the way the current rule is "written". However, the line I pointed out pretty much kills the "as written" argument. So, what else does your side of the debate have?

TParsons · Post by **TParsons** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:32 pm

[ June 25, 2011, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: TParsons ]

TParsons · Post by **TParsons** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:34 pm

[ June 25, 2011, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: TParsons ]

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:57 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Fourslot40:

KJ,

I respect you man, but I think everyone knows the DL rule as it is stated. However, you know as well as I do, that not EVERYONE knew you could manipulate the system by squeezing in a spot start later in the weekend by removing a potentially healthy pitcher by Friday for a second start. If that was equally communicated in the rules prior to the season, then it's a non-issue, but it's not.

Like Glenn said, enough with the BS man. 4, I never said everyone knew how to the use rule, I agree most didn't. It got used by other before I figured it out. But when I did saw how it could be used I didn't start crying about how unfair the world is. You figure something out, you use it, life goes on. Good for the guy who did it first and shame on me for not being the first. [/QUOTE]Ok, that whole respect thing just disintegrated. Crying? Not everyone has this option. You can't be the first if you never have the situation present itself to you. How is that fair to those who can't use it even IF they knew?

This is NOT a strategy and NOT part of the rules. Buck the trend any way you want to, but you are wrong here. And don't use the word crying as if you are some sort of man amongst men. You may be well off financially enough to think it doesn't matter, but for some of us, this is OUR ONLY HOBBY and we work real hard to even participate in these events.

[ June 25, 2011, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:59 pm

(Deleted as the post was no longer necessary)

[ June 25, 2011, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Glenneration X ]

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:00 pm

[ June 25, 2011, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]

Sebadiah23 · Post by **Sebadiah23** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:01 pm

Glenn, the rule got about 95% there as far as being clearly written, but I actually think KJ Duke may be serious about offering to rewrite it.

It says that the player has to be on the DL "by" 12 on Friday. If the word "by" was changed to "on", I think that would have been enough. It was meant to mean both "by" and "on"- it just didn't say it.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:23 pm

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

How is that fair to those who can't use it even IF they knew?

I was so fortunate to have Beachy on the DL for 4 weeks and miss 6 starts that I had an opportunity that you didn't? This has moved on to absurdity. The rule is there for everyone to use when the opportunity comes up. And I'll feel really bad for you if you never have the "opportunity" to benefit from the DL rule because your players stay healthy all year.

Many of the best players in the game have said exactly what I've said, this is a strategy tool and a part of the game that benefits DL'd players. I've been the only one dumb enough to keep responding to every crying victim. Keep playing the victim if you want, I don't want to listen to it anymore - someone else can take up the cause of not wanting to play this game like it's t-ball where everyone needs their hand held when reading the rules.

[ June 25, 2011, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

scott keikoan · Post by **scott keikoan** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:31 pm

What am I missing here? Is the loophole that I can put a DL pitcher in my lineup, have him not pitch, then replace him on Friday with a pitcher who does pitch. I end up getting one start this week.

Someone tell me what I am missing, as I would love to take advantage of this rule, unless what I wrote above is all there is to it.

kamakazi

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:40 pm

Originally posted by scott keikoan:

What am I missing here? Is the loophole that I can put a DL pitcher in my lineup, have him not pitch, then replace him on Friday with a pitcher who does pitch. I end up getting one start this week.

Someone tell me what I am missing, as I would love to take advantage of this rule, unless what I wrote above is all there is to it.

kamakazi Owners were putting in injured pitchers with the expectancy of a start prior to Friday, then they would set their weekend lineup by pulling that pitcher because he had the DL tag on him. Thus, getting two starts.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:40 pm

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

You know what the rule is and you know that if a guy is red-tagged he can be benched at anytime prior to the transaction deadline. ...and you know that the intent of the rule was to allow for substitutions of pitchers on the DL going into the Friday-Sunday scoring period. How about we all talk straight instead of playing games with semantics? [/QUOTE]Good idea. I'll re-write the rule for 2012 and there will be no doubt in anyone's mind about the rule. [/QUOTE]I know you've been laying your hat on how the rule is written for 2011. However as I pointed out at the end of the original thread on this subject, the way the rule is currently "written" does not allow for this transaction prior to Friday.

I find it interesting that noone but Chad and Joe, two who are on the same side of the debate as I am, has acknowledged that point. I'm assuming the reason noone from your side of the debate has commented on that point is because all you have is the loopholes allowed by the way the current rule is "written". However, the line I pointed out pretty much kills the "as written" argument. So, what else does your side of the debate have? [/QUOTE]KJ, although as you put it, you've responded to every crying victim, I've noticed you've never responded to my point above though given several chances. I'm guessing it's because you have no valid response. If you do have a valid response, please hold my hand while reading that rule.

As far your crying line, I again can point out many a crying jag coming from the KJ Duke screenname when decisions did not go his way. In fact I remember quite a sob session back in 2009 when this same issue was ruled on differently, and correctly.

[ June 25, 2011, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Glenneration X ]

scott keikoan · Post by **scott keikoan** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:44 pm

Wouldn't the injured pitcher be taken off the DL, if he were to start on Wednesday or Thursday, thereby not be able to be taken out on Friday?

kamakazi

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:59 pm

KJ - you made a point and stuck with it. I admire you for backing up your point. However, us peasant folk are free to respond and we do not have to agree or be held as dumb because we are protesting a rule that is being compromised to an advantage that some have and others do not.

I'm just glad that you have offered to rewrite the rule, because I'm not so sure that we have anyone here capable. Forget holding hands, perhaps to further make it easier for us, you could offer a DVD tutorial of each rule. Look at it this way, it would look great on your fantasy resume.

Don't listen to it if you wish not to, but I believe you are the one crying and playing the victim by asking for votes from your buddies on an issue that you are clearly outnumbered on. We'll be watching and responding when it's your turn to cry about a misinterpretation tough guy.

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:02 pm

Originally posted by scott keikoan:

Wouldn't the injured pitcher be taken off the DL, if he were to start on Wednesday or Thursday, thereby not be able to be taken out on Friday?

kamakazi yes, BUT, if you change your weekend lineup before the DL tag is lifted, the system will allow it. The whole idea is to make the move before the DL tag is lifted.

[ June 25, 2011, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:02 pm

[ June 25, 2011, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:08 pm

I've responded in other threads to all of the questions, ridicule, etc, regarding this rule that you guys keep posting - go back and read them and you'll have your answers from me. If you're still confused give me a call - GX and others have my number.

In the meantime, someone let me know when the next catcher gets run over at the plate, I can't get enough of those plays.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:20 pm

KJ, you're good people but I believe you're wrong on this issue. However, I agree that continued debate is getting us nowhere. Greg's obviously decided to stand by his ruling and the message board furor won't change it. It's also obvious that neither side of the debate is being swayed by the points of the other. So for me, it's time to move on.

Hopefully, someone will remember to revisit this at season's end and we can clarify the written rules so that everyone is aware of what is legal and what is not no matter which direction we decide to follow.

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:25 pm

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

KJ, you're good people but I believe you're wrong on this issue. However, I agree that continued debate is getting us nowhere. Greg's obviously decided to stand by his ruling and the message board furor won't change it. It's also obvious that neither side of the debate is being swayed by the points of the other. So for me, it's time to move on.

Hopefully, someone will remember to revisit this at season's end and we can clarify the written rules so that everyone is aware of what is legal and what is not no matter which direction we decide to follow. As much as I disagree with the ruling, I agree with Glenn. We could do this all day. It's a shame. If I knew how to post it, I'd throw up a Marcellus Wallace gimp ball shot from Pulp Fiction and call it a day.

For the record KJ, I do agree with you wholeheartedly on the collision rule. Let'em play. Good luck all.

[ June 25, 2011, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:55 pm

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

For the record KJ, I do agree with you wholeheartedly on the collision rule. Let'em play. Good luck all. This was the one guy I always wanted to see take out the opposing catcher. Probably the single-most intimidating dude to ever play the game without even being a mean guy. Don't have the video but I recall once he came flying toward home and the catcher did a slide-step so far towards the mound to avoid a direct hit he could barely even reach him with the tag.

This video of him was just as much fun to watch ...

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/354034 ... id_OEV_P_P

Ando · Post by **Ando** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:03 pm

Funny story....was @ O'Hare for some meetings last week and took a co-worker to Wrigley for his first time. Showed him around the stadium prior to the game and our way to Murphy's we are walking down Waveland and I say 'This is the building Glenallen Hill hit a ball to the top of'. He didn't believe me. You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it.....great catch, KJ.

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:20 pm

Funny, I was gone for a few hours and it seems like the thread keeps reverting to the same old discussion about what to do this year. Too bad.

I wanted to move on, Greg already ruled on this year. Lets talk about 2012.

For those that were kind enough to comment on the merits of dropping the switching of pitchers midweek in 2012, there were some really good comments. In particular, KJ, Your idea of fun is different than mine, thats cool. Joe S., yeah this is probably over-reaction, but if we have had two off-seasons to correct a problem that has been festering since 2009, this gives me little confidence we can fix it this coming year.

Doughboy, your idea of a rule change is lightyears better than we have now, and I could get behind it. It does have some limitations, like if a player gets hurt after pitching an inning or two, he could not be subbed for. Also some limited lineup manipulation could still occur, such as skipping a bad matchup in a two start week and delaying a weekend start decision until Friday. My preference would to be simply not allow a midweek matchup, or to limit midweek pitchers switches to just on Fridays only, for pitchers on the DL as of 12:01am Friday.

Glenn, your comments on the rule change in you first post were spot on, I agree completely.

keep you comments coming, but if you want to talk about something besides 2012 midweek pitcher changes, I'd appreciate if you did it elsewhere. thanks.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:51 pm

I don't think of those as limitations, Robert.

First, the dl rule is eliminated.

B, if a pitcher throws an inning or two now, he is dled or doesn't pitch the rest of the week. The only difference between that and what we have now is the manipulation of the rule.

3, I've often wondered if a pitcher has a two week start why we are locked in to both starts. In a lot of ways it doesn't make sense. Perhaps it is the opposite of streaming, but I think it would provide for a level field of strategy.

Maybe something for everybody.

Just thoughts...

Money · Post by **Money** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:12 pm

[ June 26, 2011, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: Money ]