WCOFB Baseball

Gladiators · Post by **Gladiators** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:06 am

What are league or overall winners doing as far as for WCOFB? Just giving up on their money? What a joke. I was only supposed to get a few hundred for a league prize but it still grates me.

Gladiators · Post by **Gladiators** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:09 am

I thought it was simply classic how they let us play out the season knowing we were doing it for nothing. After the Sept. 1 note about cancellation, the game still worked through the end of the season. Many of us did not know about them cancelling for several weeks after they packed up and left.

What a sham.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:53 am

Watch Goodfellas and see if any ideas pop into your mind on how to "collect"

Raskol · Post by **Raskol** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:17 am

Originally posted by Gekko:

Watch Goodfellas and see if any ideas pop into your mind on how to "collect"

I always prefer the personalized touch of hired goons.

More seriously, we could wait in the soup line with everyone else who is owed money, but the line is long and there isn't any soup.

damien p · Post by **damien p** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:17 pm

I don't know, first year i played wcofb. they owe me $1200, compared to many people this is not much owed but it is for me. I have sent messages to other people in wcofb about action being taken, but as of now i have not had any responses. From my understanding they do not have any money. It is a really disgusting situation.

FFBL23 · Post by **FFBL23** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:19 pm

Originally posted by Gekko:

Watch Goodfellas and see if any ideas pop into your mind on how to "collect"

I've been contemplating my next move. Thanks for the advice Gekko

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:43 am

After RT Sports pulled the plug on the back end for the 2011 WCOFF football season in late August which eventually and inevitably led to the cancelation of their fantasy football season, I stopped reaching out to the WCOFF for updates. I mean after all, what was there to update at that point.

Upon the completion of their 2011 fantasy baseball season where I finished 2nd overall in their Main Event and 1st overall in their Online Championships and was thus due more than $67K in prize winnings, I naturally recommenced reaching out to them for updates. After several phone calls to their office & cells as well as E-mail requests for the status of payment, I was finally able to start an E-mail dialogue with Dustin. He was typically vague and offered little in the way of real updates, but promised substantive updates shortly. The last correspondence from him was receeived a week ago today. Though I've left several voice messages and as many E-mails, they've gone unanswered since.

Today I called their office phone only to find it's been disconnected. I sent E-mails to their various E-mail addresses, only to have several be kicked back as non-existent. Lastly, their webpage address is no longer accessible.

I had already started looking into and discussing the possibility of legal action with others owed. I assume it's time to make this option the one to follow. Such a shame.

Many of us play this hobby dreaming of that big score. It really takes the heart out of my love for this hobby to attain that dream only to have it turn into a nightmare. I feel just as bad for others suffering that should be rejoicing such as Nelson, Kevin Kirves, Chad, Tony Windis and many many others. What a crime for all of us and everyone who loves this hobby.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:02 pm

[ October 11, 2011, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Glenneration X ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:06 pm

Dustin called me back shortly after I made my previous post. I do appreciate him getting back to me. We spoke for about a little over a half an hour.

He explained that he's still very ill and had to step down as managing partner of Gridiron and the WCOFF. As far as the future of the WCOFF and payments to those owed, he couldn't really offer any new information. How that all plays out has yet to be determined.

I'm sorry I couldn't provide more or better updates. Good luck to all those owed, I hope we all get what's due us.

southpaw23 · Post by **southpaw23** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:08 pm

I'm owed about $1350. Not a large sum but it would pay for some of my buy-ins next year.

Maybe the government can step in and just give us the money we're owed. According to some people, they are in the business of handouts that they can't pay for.

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:15 pm

Not to sound too callous, but what does his illness have to do with not paying people what is rightfully theirs? He continued to take money from people knowingly and that he/they couldn't/wouldn't be paying their football and baseball winners from 2009.

Hopefully Glenn, Chad, etc take the necessary steps to prevent WCOFB/WCOFF and their management team from ever conducting business in fantasy sports again.

damien p · Post by **damien p** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:59 pm

Thanks for the update Glenn, I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for you, I am only owed $1200 and am really pissed. What a difference in organizations. When NFBC was having problems with fanball greg and tom where always accessible and honest. Wcoff just vanishes. I am sure all of us involved would greatly appreciate any updates you have.

Thanks, and best of luck

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:33 pm

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

Dustin called me back shortly after I made my previous post. I do appreciate him getting back to me. We spoke for about a little over a half an hour. The sound of clinking glasses, soft waves, and sea gulls were a small distraction in the background of Dustin speaking.

Dustin the wind...

FFBL23 · Post by **FFBL23** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:49 pm

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

Dustin called me back shortly after I made my previous post. I do appreciate him getting back to me. We spoke for about a little over a half an hour.

He explained that he's still very ill and had to step down as managing partner of Gridiron and the WCOFF. As far as the future of the WCOFF and payments to those owed, he couldn't really offer any new information. How that all plays out has yet to be determined.

I'm sorry I couldn't provide more or better updates. Good luck to all those owed, I hope we all get what's due us. Who is the managing partner then? I have some things that we need to discuss.

Glenn, your PM Box is full.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:00 am

Originally posted by FFBL23:

quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:

Dustin called me back shortly after I made my previous post. I do appreciate him getting back to me. We spoke for about a little over a half an hour.

He explained that he's still very ill and had to step down as managing partner of Gridiron and the WCOFF. As far as the future of the WCOFF and payments to those owed, he couldn't really offer any new information. How that all plays out has yet to be determined.

I'm sorry I couldn't provide more or better updates. Good luck to all those owed, I hope we all get what's due us. Who is the managing partner then? I have some things that we need to discuss.

Glenn, your PM Box is full. [/QUOTE]I know I need to empty. If you want Kevin, give me a ring later this morning.

Gladiators · Post by **Gladiators** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:54 am

If you ask me, his illness really has nothing to do with not paying out winners. While I do not wish that on anyone, the point is that fees were paid to play a contest that has not given back a dime (and probably will not). To me it is no different then stealing.

I am one that has went to arbitration over a grand prize in fantasy unpaid a few years back and won the case for a 6-figure sum. As of now, I have collected barely any of the judgment owed and have lost a great deal more with legal fees on the whole issue. It is something that I never want to experience again...the drain on a family and the hopes dashed of getting a national grand prize that you will never collect on.

WCOFB will mark the 3rd company in as many years that owes me money for winnings that will almost undoubtedly go unpaid. Sometimes I wonder why I bother......glad there are a scant few that are still decent in this industry.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:19 am

Originally posted by Gladiators:

glad there are a scant few that are still decent in this industry. There definitely are but we are well aware that some/many fantasy players have lost all confidence - even with those of us who are reputable, who have always paid on time and have no credibility issues whatsoever. The stain that other contest put on the entire high-stakes industry was immense and widespread and it impacted everyone who participates in this industry and runs events in this industry.

The best we can do as a high-stakes event operator is show everyone that our games are above reproach, we will pay on time and we will issue no promises that we cannot and will not keep. Hopefully, the people scarred by that other contest won't be so disgusted by what transpired they'll leave the high-stakes arena forever and will see that there are good games still available that they can enjoy and, most importantly, they can place their trust in.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:41 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

Dustin called me back shortly after I made my previous post. I do appreciate him getting back to me. We spoke for about a little over a half an hour.

He explained that he's still very ill and had to step down as managing partner of Gridiron and the WCOFF. As far as the future of the WCOFF and payments to those owed, he couldn't really offer any new information. How that all plays out has yet to be determined.

I'm sorry I couldn't provide more or better updates. Good luck to all those owed, I hope we all get what's due us. I hate to even post on this thread because all it does is draw attention to this terrible fiasco. But the fact that he called Glenn after he made an updated post on that contest shows you that their management team is still capable of communicating to players what happened in 2011 and what will happen with their prize money in the future. Unfortunately, they select who they talk to and when they talk to them and how they spin it. Then they hope the spin buys them some time.

It' SICKENING to think that throughout the entire baseball season Dustin and others over there didn't update the customers on what was happening. Even in September after WCOFF folded and failed to pay 2010 winners, there never was a post that WCOFB payments wouldn't go out. The silence bought them time and when the season was complete and the site was taken down they just assumed everyone understood why the lights went out. Well guess what? Many of those customers DIDN'T know what was going on. They are contacting ME to find out why they haven't been paid and I've given several owners the bad news. I've had to tell them what happened, not Dustin.

We wish him best of health, but let's realize that there are many others in that organization who could step forward and be honest with the industry and with their customers. Everyone over there has chosen to be silent and let time erase this memory. I have a feeling Chad, Kevin and some others won't let that happen, but as Gladiators has stated it's not easy to sue for this money and get anything. What's left to get?

The fact that anyone over there can call a customer and say they don't know what the future holds -- as if some miracle can happen -- is sad. The industry's future moves forward with a BIG BLACK STAIN ON IT thanks to this fiasco and apparently the owners just move on with their lives, no worse for the tear. Meanwhile, you have hundreds of good fantasy players left holding the bag, out well over $1 million in prize money. Think about that: 1 MILLION PLUS DOLLARS!!! UNPAID!!! NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN. That's more than a million dollars paid in by customers that never went back to customers.

Sorry for my anger. I don't even want to see this thread anymore on our boards. They make me sick. We will continue to run a good business, pay out our baseball prizes in record time and run a great, great contest in 2012 and beyond. And hopefully the next time Dustin & Co addresses a customer it's to say that they've dipped into their own pockets and did the right thing by paying everyone in full. Unfortunately, I think that's a bigger dream than anyone can imagine.

Gladiators · Post by **Gladiators** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:00 am

Greg, when you talk about a million unpaid dollars...I do get sick to my stomach. What I always wonder in these situations when fantasy businesses go belly-up is exactly WHERE the money from entries has went? I know there are a lot of costs to run a fantasy site/game but somewhere in the business plan they MUST have prepared for certain things. Can someone explain to me how you can take anywhere from a couple hundred thousand dollars to a over a million in entry fees and NOT set aside the prize money ahead of time and expect it to just work out in the end???? What the hell is going on?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:21 am

Originally posted by Gladiators:

Greg, when you talk about a million unpaid dollars...I do get sick to my stomach. What I always wonder in these situations when fantasy businesses go belly-up is exactly WHERE the money from entries has went? I know there are a lot of costs to run a fantasy site/game but somewhere in the business plan they MUST have prepared for certain things. Can someone explain to me how you can take anywhere from a couple hundred thousand dollars to a over a million in entry fees and NOT set aside the prize money ahead of time and expect it to just work out in the end???? What the hell is going on? The first thing you can look at is the baseball prize structure and do the math from there. 128 teams in the Main Event each of the last two years with a grand prize of $200,000 and second place of $50,000 quickly tells you a loss is coming even before league prizes are being paid. Here's some advice: If it looks too good to be true then it is too good to be true.

The losses from baseball add up pretty quickly and the football losses were a result of high expenses and payouts based on hundreds of more teams than they attracted for many years. The WCOFF was the biggest contest in the industry and the premiere event and yet somehow losses came from that event, too. Tough decisions needed to be made when losses began accumulating and unfortunately the status quo remained each year until upper management decided enough was enough. At that point, honesty and solid communication needed to be presented to the players and unfortunately there was silence, innuendos, communication through their players, hope and then plenty of despair. Dammit, now you've got me all mad again. What a shame for everyone.

Winston's Empire · Post by **Winston's Empire** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:28 am

WOW, I am glad I never got hooked up with any other high end fantasy baseball operation after reading some of these posts.

When NFBC went through the changes last year, I will never forget the communication and support players where showing each other and Tom and Greg! Never a doubt that all would work out and be better than ever.

With that said, it will be awesome to sit back and watch the NFBC continue to grow, offer more options to bring in more players, and blow what has proven to be ZERO's for competition out of the water!

The entire NFBC community should be proud of what has been built here in my humble opinion.

The Mighty Men · Post by **The Mighty Men** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:19 am

Every time words come out of Dustin's mouth, we should break out the Tidybowl and a scrub brush because he is full of crap. Every. Single. Time.

He has led people on for 9 months. He has lied for 9 months. Even this last conversation with Glenn offers NOTHING. It just is a way to try and placate the wronged.

His illness has nothing to do with his deception, his lies, and his management. Now he isn't the managing partner?? Yeah, ok, liar.

Every time I get an idea of how to bring Dustin to justice, I call the lawyer in Kansas City representing the soon-to-be-plaintiffs in their case against them. Yeah, that's right Dustin, I want you to answer for what you have done to the fantasy masses in two different sports. I will offer free legal advice to them and their lawyer, because you are a crook.

How about you open your books, Dustin? Let's see your fraud game. You don't want to? I don't blame you, but someday you will have no choice.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:21 am

[ October 13, 2011, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Walla Walla ]

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:34 am

Didn't you retire? Again? Wallafavre.

The Mighty Men · Post by **The Mighty Men** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:08 am

Originally posted by Walla Walla:

WCOFB spoke persons Shawn Childs and Eddie Gillis

were once the darlings of the NFBC. Than they got drawn to the WCOFB. Offers of being writers for a Web Site free rooms extra. It didn't pan out. But the thing that made me wonder about all this was Greg inviting Shawn to do the LABR leagues. Granted Shawn was a HOF for the NFBC. But by that time he was a Shill for the WCOFB. Not passing judgement. Just wondering about the behind the scene moves here. Oh, not passing judgment but using the word "shill". OK. FYI - You are using the term "shill" incorrectly. You really think THEY were part of a con game? At least go look up the word so you know what it means if you are going to throw the term around at Shawn and Eddie.

And if they were getting freebies, so what? I'm sure we all would have liked freebies.