Minimum starts

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:20 am

Vegas--It's my understanding that there won't be any movement in the standings. If you didn't make your innings you would get zero but freeze in place. The offending team is penalised no team moves up.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:35 am

Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:

Did anyone happen to notice that GG did not respond to any of my postings?

Also, do you want the winner of this contest to win because he was bumped up due to teams above him being penalized down.

you brought up a valid pt about teams moving places. i suggested having the min IP for the all-star break. that way the movement would occur at the all-star break, not at the end of the season. greg said no to that. i'm not pretending to have all the answers here. i'm just throwing out some inequities...as i did with how the NFFC league champs get their money.

as far as the overall winner, i'm on the same side as dyv and the majority of other owners, in that i'd expect the winner to have a terrific team. i also follow that up with hoping he didn't come from some bizarre league that had 3+ teams trying the RP/hurt P strategy. to me that sends the message that bizarre league strategies certainly do affect the main event.

[ July 28, 2005, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:39 am

bw, the title of this thread should be minimum IP, not minimum starts

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:56 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

bw, the title of this thread should be minimum IP, not minimum starts I'll agree with you on that one!

STATS is going to look up the total innings pitched for NFBC teams after we personally scout out the Cubs this afternoon. Hopefully I'll have some answers tomorrow when the beer wears off!

And please stop with the NFFC darts about the h2h champion. Thirteen of 16 league champions last year led h2h and total points. The system works and keeps everyone in line for the $5k longer with the setup we have.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:35 am

Originally posted by Kevin D:

Cut it out Dave!!! YOU'RE kILLIN ME!!!&!! LMTD(LAUGHING MYSELF TO DEATH)

But you've got us mixed up. That was Shawn sleeping and me on the cellphone. LOL BAHAHA!

I'm going to bring a magazine from 2003 and slip it into your draft pile before drafts this year. Watch yourselves carefully

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:37 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

bw, the title of this thread should be minimum IP, not minimum starts I'll agree with you on that one!

STATS is going to look up the total innings pitched for NFBC teams after we personally scout out the Cubs this afternoon. Hopefully I'll have some answers tomorrow when the beer wears off!

And please stop with the NFFC darts about the h2h champion. Thirteen of 16 league champions last year led h2h and total points. The system works and keeps everyone in line for the $5k longer with the setup we have. [/QUOTE]Greg, the weather just softened up a bit, too - should be a good day for a ballgame!

I will stop darts on the issue if you answer me ONE question, Greg...

You invest $1250 to play fantasy football. Your team is amazing. All your sleepers woke up, all your injury risks stayed healthy. You finish the year with 2 losses and outscore your league by 240 pts. You take home 2nd place money because one of the teams who scored 400 pts. less than you finished the season with 1 loss. Caught 5 different teams when their star players were on bye weeks and just managed to win with a solid team but far inferior to yours...

How do you feel?

Enjoy the cubbies -

Dave

[ July 28, 2005, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Dyv ]

a · Post by a » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:09 am

Dyv,

And would any of your wins come against a team where thier top players were on a bye? We all have been playing a long time and every year and every league, we get wins becuase of that situation too. You just can't look at your loses or another teams wins. You need to look at your wins too.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:46 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Thirteen of 16 league champions last year led h2h and total points. The system works i did not intend for this to be a debate about the nffc on the nfbc MB. but i can't let that statement go. it's simply not true. only 10 of the 16 league winners had most pts, not 13. so, ~62% of the teams awarded 1st place prize $ actually had the most points scored in their respective league. the following owners had scored the most pts in their league, but got the old shoe to the jimmy (no chance for a league playoff game)...

Jones Falls Terrrace

fantasyjungle.com

She Hate Me

Yiz fancy pants

Teenage Wasteland

Big Mac Attack

if 62% is the "system working", i think we both have different ideas on what constitutes "working". i'm looking forward to seeing the #'s from this year.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:48 am

Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:

Dyv,

And would any of your wins come against a team where thier top players were on a bye? We all have been playing a long time and every year and every league, we get wins becuase of that situation too. You just can't look at your loses or another teams wins. You need to look at your wins too. phil,

trying to generalize here...the owners who know what they're doing, would like a league championship game. the owners who don't know what they're doing (who know who you are) are fine with the luck of H2H scheduling.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:48 am

Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:

Dyv,

And would any of your wins come against a team where thier top players were on a bye? We all have been playing a long time and every year and every league, we get wins becuase of that situation too. You just can't look at your loses or another teams wins. You need to look at your wins too. It really doesn't matter as the 'proof' of your team being better than the other one (in my example) was 400 pts. more scored during the season. If my team was consistently 25-35 pts. PER WEEK better than another one I would have a tough pill swallowing they had a 'better' team than me. It would suggest that they had a 'luckier' schedule than I did.

I'm not in favor of using H2H schedule as the determinant of league champ. Scheduling is out of anyone's ability to control so why make it a random luck (good or bad) factor.

H2H and points named Co League champs? I can bite on that as a compromise, but I see no reason to clutter up the point with who has what wins. What rationale can you offer that H2H schedule champ deserves the lion's share of the league pot?

I carefully note that the $100k isn't awarded to the team getting the most wins. Let's be consistent - either record is important for money or it's not. If it is, then change the $100k award to the team with the best record and use points as a tie breaker. If it isn't, then make it consistent throughout the contest.

That's just my opinion.

Dyv

a · Post by a » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:18 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:

Did anyone happen to notice that GG did not respond to any of my postings?

Also, do you want the winner of this contest to win because he was bumped up due to teams above him being penalized down.

you brought up a valid pt about teams moving places. i suggested having the min IP for the all-star break. that way the movement would occur at the all-star break, not at the end of the season. greg said no to that. i'm not pretending to have all the answers here. i'm just throwing out some inequities...as i did with how the NFFC league champs get their money.

as far as the overall winner, i'm on the same side as dyv and the majority of other owners, in that i'd expect the winner to have a terrific team. i also follow that up with hoping he didn't come from some bizarre league that had 3+ teams trying the RP/hurt P strategy. to me that sends the message that bizarre league strategies certainly do affect the main event. [/QUOTE]Gordon, but still, that will have zero affect on your alleged complaint. You are trying to offer a preventative solution to an action that would have already occured.

I do agree with you on one point, there are bizzare stategies. I consider position scarecity a questionable stategy, we should throw that out too. All Power team, Ave steals team. Those leave good players on the board too. Should we address this too.

The real funny thing is, every top gamer (including GG and Dyv and myself) have spoken volumes hoping to be with dead money in their leagues (I consider closer only dead money, you very rarely see them win). If a league has several "dead money teams" we all wish we were in that league. And please, don't try to tell me you never wished you were in another league, I am sure I can pull up the posts lol

As far as solutions, it is not in changing the format or requiring mins. I can only see the percieved fainess to administrering a league index (like ESPN) to weight leagues against each other, then create an index for the teams of the league. The stronger leagues will have a higher index than a lower league, thus evening out the competition.

Solution #2 - I came up with an idea and the sole originator..... Invitational World (National) Championship. I first created this the first year in WCOFF after seeing the dead money in the draft that first year.

I understand what you are trying to say (and I did not see 100+ supporting you, which would create a majority), but you are trying to change a basic element to the game that has existed since day one... take advantage of the weak owners.

a · Post by a » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:25 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:

Dyv,

And would any of your wins come against a team where thier top players were on a bye? We all have been playing a long time and every year and every league, we get wins becuase of that situation too. You just can't look at your loses or another teams wins. You need to look at your wins too. phil,

trying to generalize here...the owners who know what they're doing, would like a league championship game. the owners who don't know what they're doing (who know who you are) are fine with the luck of H2H scheduling. [/QUOTE]I am in favor of a league championship too, don't get me wrong, but FF is about wins and losses since day one. Yes, I would love to see H2H vs Points in a league championship.

FYI- I have been in a position where I scored more points than the team ahead of me in the standings for the money. So I understand the point completely.

a · Post by a » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:31 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Thirteen of 16 league champions last year led h2h and total points. The system works i did not intend for this to be a debate about the nffc on the nfbc MB. but i can't let that statement go. it's simply not true. only 10 of the 16 league winners had most pts, not 13. so, ~62% of the teams awarded 1st place prize $ actually had the most points scored in their respective league. the following owners had scored the most pts in their league, but got the old shoe to the jimmy (no chance for a league playoff game)...

Jones Falls Terrrace

fantasyjungle.com

She Hate Me

Yiz fancy pants

Teenage Wasteland

Big Mac Attack

if 62% is the "system working", i think we both have different ideas on what constitutes "working". i'm looking forward to seeing the #'s from this year. [/QUOTE]Would you have an issue with this if Teenage Wasteland wasn't on this list???????

As I mentioned before FF has been and always will be about wins and losses first (similar to real football). No one got "jimmyed" because the rules stated outfront who will win and who will not. If the rule was changed mid season, then you were "jimmyed".

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:47 am

phil and others, i started a football thread on the nffc MB, as not to clutter up this one with football. jump on over if you want. thanks.

Plymouth · Post by **Plymouth** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:28 am

Finally, some common sense. Get that football

$%&# off the baseball MB. Thanks.