Miggy

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DOUGHBOYS
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Miggy

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:52 am

Lets get back to baseball....

I had the number two pick in a recent Draft Champions. I didn't enjoy it. I know that the consensus is that Miguel Cabrera is THE number two pick. And if asking Joe and a few others, the number one pick. :D
I had reservations. I picked Cabrera, but still had the same reservations. In the back of my mind, I think that Miggy has had the best years of his career. We are paying the price of a number two for his past. His past is intoxicating and that is why he is THE number 2 pick.
But we play this game for the future, not for the past.
I'll keep number 2 out of my KDS for the Main Event. There is nothing in Miggy's past that keeps him from being the number two pick for others.
This is just a personal thing. I have no numbers. I have no right even to say that Miggy does not belong at number two. Like said, I ended up taking him anyway.
It is just a feeling that Miggy won't be the Miggy we've seen before.
Am I crazy?
On my tombstone-
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!

Money
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Re: Miggy

Post by Money » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:15 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:Lets get back to baseball....

I had the number two pick in a recent Draft Champions. I didn't enjoy it. I know that the consensus is that Miguel Cabrera is THE number two pick. And if asking Joe and a few others, the number one pick. :D
I had reservations. I picked Cabrera, but still had the same reservations. In the back of my mind, I think that Miggy has had the best years of his career. We are paying the price of a number two for his past. His past is intoxicating and that is why he is THE number 2 pick.
But we play this game for the future, not for the past.
I'll keep number 2 out of my KDS for the Main Event. There is nothing in Miggy's past that keeps him from being the number two pick for others.
This is just a personal thing. I have no numbers. I have no right even to say that Miggy does not belong at number two. Like said, I ended up taking him anyway.
It is just a feeling that Miggy won't be the Miggy we've seen before.
Am I crazy?
This is a convoluted as some of the strategies being thrown around in other threads. I think Dan's computer has been hacked. Throw out the last 30 games of last season when Miggy couldn't walk and his numbers were off the charts,heck they were still off the charts! The potential of a .350 BA (not to mention the triple digits in Runs and RBI's) creates such and edge I can't see how you possibly pass.

Year TM G AB H 2B 3B HR RBI R BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
2003 FLA 87 314 84 21 3 12 62 39 25 84 0 2 .268 .325 .468 .793
2004 FLA 160 603 177 31 1 33 112 101 68 148 5 2 .294 .366 .512 .879
2005 FLA 158 613 198 43 2 33 116 106 64 125 1 0 .323 .385 .561 .947
2006 FLA 158 576 195 50 2 26 114 112 86 108 9 6 .339 .430 .568 .998
2007 FLA 157 588 188 38 2 34 119 91 79 127 2 1 .320 .401 .565 .965
2008 DET 160 616 180 36 2 37 127 85 56 126 1 0 .292 .349 .537 .887
2009 DET 160 611 198 34 0 34 103 96 68 107 6 2 .324 .396 .547 .942
2010 DET 150 548 180 45 1 38 126 111 89 95 3 3 .328 .420 .622 1.042
2011 DET 161 572 197 48 0 30 105 111 108 89 2 1 .344 .448 .586 1.033
2012 DET 161 622 205 40 0 44 139 109 66 98 4 1 .330 .393 .606 .999
2013 DET 148 555 193 26 1 44 137 103 90 94 3 0 .348 .442 .636 1.078

You're predicting his decline based on what? Prince is no longer behind him? Until he doesn't do it, he's number 1 in my book. Plus the flexibility you get during the draft knowing that you can plug him into either corner? If we get the number 1 pick in the Platinum, I may be at odds with my partner right from the get go ;)
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Joe

Sea Wolves
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Re: Miggy

Post by Sea Wolves » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:30 pm

If I was drafting 1st today I would draft Trout. If I was drafting 2nd, today, I would take Miggy, but with some trepidation. The only reason for that, for me, is Miggy's health. We all saw how much he was limited in the last month of last season. Do I know, today, that he has healed or that he will be healed? No, I don't. I know he had off-season sugery, but, today, I can't with any confidence expect Miggy to be the Miggy of old. He may turn out to be the same player he has been - and I certainly hope he does - but for that reason I can see how Dan would have mixed feelings about drafting Miggy.

DOUGHBOYS
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Re: Miggy

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:33 pm

I have been a Miggy guy for as long as I can remember. I was the same way with Albert Pujols. And the same feeling I got with Pujols, when signing with the Angels, is the same feeling I have now with Miggy.
Don't draft him.
I can't explain it. And I know it makes little sense. I thought the feeling would go away once I drafted Miggy, but it didn't.
In fact, Mr. Lowy, Glenn's Dad had the third pick in that draft. I asked Glenn if he were a big Tigers or Cabrera fan. If answering in the affirmative, I would have let him have him (I wish it were you, Joe! I would have KNOWN what to do :D
Every number brought up will support Miggy, not me. I know that.

I guess this is what they call a gut feeling. I've started two teams with Goldschmidt and loved each of them, both before and after picking Goldy, not the same with Miggy.
This is just a personal thing and if Miggy is a top two pick again next year, I'll know I was way off base with this gut call.


Joe, you're probably right. Everything points to you being right.
There is not one iota of Numerish to defend not taking Miggy second. Not one thing in his past that deserves a drop from near the top.
And still, that feeling in my gut tells me not to draft him.
Maybe it'll go away.
I hope so because my head says yes, the gut says no.
On my tombstone-
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!

jvetter
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Re: Miggy

Post by jvetter » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:38 pm

I have the same reservations about Cabrera. I haven't had the chance to prove it this season yet but if I had the #2 pick, I would take Goldschmidt over Cabrera. I think he can match Cabrera in every category except batting average and Goldschmidt has a clear edge in speed. I choose the rising the star without much of a track record over aging Cabrera with off-season groin surgery.

I keep the #2 on my KDS on the chance the #1 pick selects Cabrera and I can steal Trout at #2.

Bronx Yankees
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Re: Miggy

Post by Bronx Yankees » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:44 pm

Funny how different folks will get different gut feelings about different players. Most of the time, when I read Dan's posts, I find myself nodding in agreement. Having done several drafts with Dan, I find that we often - but not always - have similar opinions on players. On this one, I find myself diametrically opposed to Dan's gut.

To me, Slot No. 2 is the easiest decision on the entire draft board. I almost prefer it to Slot No. 1 because the pressure is off and I don't have to make a tough decision that I may regret. I have Trout narrowly ahead of Miggy and a clear gap after that. After the last two years, I feel confident in saying that Miggy is the best pure hitter I have seen in my lifetime (born in '66; following baseball avidly since the early 70's). This may sound crazy after all of the great players I have seen over the last four plus decades, but I really do not recall anyone that can like Miggy. There may be some that could hit for a higher average (but not many), and some that could hit for more power (but not many), and some that could knock in runners better (but not many). But, I can't think of any hitter that could do it all as well as Miggy.

I can't explain Dan's gut feeling, other than, perhaps, it is because he saw a great hitter get injured, and then look human (for a change) as he battled to stay in his lineup and help his team (when many of the sport's prima donnas would have called it quits and sat). The memory of a human-hitting Miggy still is fresh, at least for now, until he obliterates the memory, as I expect him to do come April.

In terms of whether Miggy is attractive at Slot No. 2, I guess the question turns on whether you think he still is hurt, or likely to get hurt again. I have no reason to believe he won't be fresh to start the season. Although he is no longer a young player, he isn't old yet - still in his peak years, even if those peak years now may be limited. If anything, I think the news coming into this season is relatively positive. The move from 3B to 1B should help keep Miggy on the field (hello positional flexibility!). Moreover, even if he is banged up, now the Tigers can let V-Mart play a few games at first and let Miggy DH for a bit. The only downer is whether V-Mart will be able to provide adequate protection, and I do fear that Miggy will be pitched around even more than in the past. Still, I think the benefit of moving from 3B to 1B is about equal to the loss of protection - maybe not. There are no guarantees concerning health, and we all have had key players get hurt. But, if you assume health, it is tough to imagine Miggy not being one of the best hitters in the game in 2014. He is the model of consistency - he consistently mashes.

Dan, could your gut feeling simply be acid reflux from too many Doritos? :D

Mike

P.S. - If Miggy underperforms this year, you'll have one helluva "I told you so" at your disposal, and I will not longer doubt your gut. :lol:
Mike Mager
"Bronx Yankees"

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NorCalAtlFan
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Re: Miggy

Post by NorCalAtlFan » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:45 pm

totally agree Dan. I've had #2 pick once, and up until the last moment, I was going to take Goldschmidt. didn't want any part of Miggy. hell, the only reason i took him was the eventual positional flexibility.
i'm pretty sure i'll be happy at seasons end, but i felt on tilt 2 picks into the draft!

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Outlaw
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Re: Miggy

Post by Outlaw » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:52 pm

[quote="DOUGHBOYS"]I have been a Miggy guy for as long as I can remember. I was the same way with Albert Pujols. And the same feeling I got with Pujols, when signing with the Angels, is the same feeling I have now with Miggy.
Don't draft him.
I can't explain it. And I know it makes little sense. I thought the feeling would go away once I drafted Miggy, but it didn't.

quote]


Alberts first year with Angles he was a top 5-10 pick. He had an OK year, but not an Albert year. He killed everyone that drafted for the first 3 months of that Angels first year. Was he a top 10 pick no. Injuries got him and got him hard. If Miggy has an Albert 1st year Angels year, then this time next year we'll all know.
Age, injuries, wear and tear, a long career already, I think Dan is saying what could happen this year, not what will happen.

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Gekko
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Re: Miggy

Post by Gekko » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:01 pm

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JohnP
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Re: Miggy

Post by JohnP » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:11 am

Great stuff Dan. I think we are all conditioned to think ADP. Every single fantasy baseball host can not go 5 minutes without saying "NFBC ADP". This is GREAT for the NFBC and it is awesome that they are being recognized as the authority. Fantastic. My problem is how we are all just brainwashed on ADP. We draft a guy a round later than his ADP and we say to ourselves "wow, what a bargain, can you believe he went so late?". I am guilty as the next guy. Let's just look at last year for example. In the end, the first round returned higher average value than the second or third but it wasn't resounding. 5 of the top 15 returned $20 value or less (braun, kemp, pujols, stanton, verlander). That leaves 10 that were 20 or over. Bautista was at 20 so we could probably add him to the group of "first round disappointments". Second round of last year there were 9 that were over 20. Third round there were 9 over 20. Think about that.....18 players in round 2 or 3 that would have been better first round picks than 35% of the first rounders. Yet....we would have ridiculed those picks like crazy if we saw Ellsbury or Goldy or Cliff Lee being picked in the first round. I'm sure the same will be true this year. There will be 5/6 picks in the first round that will be busts and another 20 in the next two rounds that we should have picked instead. Will Miggy be one of these? Hard to argue that he will be but a year ago we were all pretty sure of Kemp, Pujols, and Stanton. We were also pretty sure Pedroia and Beltre were too old and that Goldschmidt was too young and Yu was going to need some time and the list goes on. At minimum this exercise is a good reminder for me to not get stuck in the "adp box".

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