More Details On 12-Team Main Event

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:56 am

Okay, I feel very confident now that we can host the industry's first major 12-team baseball Main Event and grow this format just like we did with the 15-team Main Event format. Unfortunately, I need to differentiate the two by name and I can't come up with anything catchy for the 12-team format right now. Personally, I want to keep our 15-team format as the MAIN EVENT because that's what it's always been and always will be. But what do we call the 12-teamer?

I'm open for suggestions, so provide some here. I'm not going with the Primetime and Classic here, although we could. Right now I'm just calling it the 12-Team Championship, but we can do better than that, right? Let's nail something down and get it on the new NFBC web site in the next week or so. Thanks for any help you can provide there.

In the last month, I've received a lot of feedback from folks on this new contest. Most of it has been favorable, especially from new players who want to do a live draft but are somewhat intimidated by the 15-team format. They are more comfortable with the 12-team format and maybe a slightly lesser entry level. I heard that at the AFL Symposium last week and previously in email and phone conversations.

But we learned that it's tough to create a buzz or make a profit at $500 per team, especially at live events. In 2004 when we started the NFBC our Main Event was $1,250 and I think that's a price point that you can do things at. But jumping from $525 to $1,250 in one year might make it tough for our current owners and might be too high of a price point for new players. So Tom and I have agreed to debut this contest at $1,000 and see if we can grow the prizes from there.

We are trying to reward the league winners in this format right away, paying 4x to the champion, 2x to the runner-up and still paying third place within the league. I know we could have grown the grand prize had we not paid third place in each league, but I really think this keeps more teams battling longer during the season and gives more teams hope for some return on investment. I like our league prizes here and if we grow beyond our guaranteed levels the additional prize money will then grow the overall prize pool starting with the grand prize.

We are basing our prize money on 300 total teams, rather than the 240 I initially set up. I believe we can get 25 leagues through the dates, times and locations we currently have set up. We will offer this contest multiple times online and at the live events, giving everyone a legitimate shot to play in this contest and win in this format.

The grand prize starts out at $40,000 because our league prizes are so strong, but we can grow that quickly. Payouts are solid for the Top 10 overall and again this is based on 300 teams. This should compliment our other 12-team offering -- the Online Championship -- which is priced at $350 and offers a $50,000 grand prize. That prize pool is based on 600 teams and is only offered online.

Here's the proposed prize structure for the 12-Team Championship:

NFBC 12-Team Main Event

Overall

1st $40,000.00

2nd $8,000.00

3rd $5,000.00

4th $2,500.00

5th $1,500.00

6th $1,250.00

7th $1,000.00

8th $1,000.00

9th $750.00

10th $750.00

League Prizes

1st: $4,000

2nd: $2,000

3rd: $500

Any thoughts would be appreciated. We know that we need to extend our promotional might to attract new members to this contest and all of our NFBC contests in 2012 and we believe we can do that. We want to add to our Live Events and continue to grow this 12-team format. But we can't grow it to $100,000 just yet. We need to walk before we run.

So thanks for any feedback. Oh, and remember to provide a name for this contest. We need help there.

[ November 11, 2011, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:18 am

"Main-Lite"

"Not Quite Main"

"Twelfth and Main"

"Not Main, but pretty close"

"Sugarless Main"

Just kidding. How about some of the names you already thought about, but put the "12" to differentiate:

"NFBC Premier-12 Championship "

"NFBC National-12 Championship"

"NFBC High-Stakes-12 Championship"

"NFBC Choice-12 Championship"

Or go for other monikers like:

"NFBC Legends Championship"

"NFBC Blue Chip Championship"

Just thoughts.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:33 am

'The Dozen Drafters Championship'

Same as '12 team Championship.

It just sounds and looks a little better.

Money · Post by **Money** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:48 am

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

"Main-Lite"

"Not Quite Main"

"Twelfth and Main"

"Not Main, but pretty close"

"Sugarless Main"

Just kidding. How about some of the names you already thought about, but put the "12" to differentiate:

"NFBC Premier-12 Championship "

"NFBC National-12 Championship"

"NFBC High-Stakes-12 Championship"

"NFBC Choice-12 Championship"

Or go for other monikers like:

"NFBC Legends Championship"

"NFBC Blue Chip Championship"

Just thoughts. I don't think you have to use the number 12 in the name at all. All of the choices above are good just don't need the number in there. Possibly you could name it after a famous ball player or something.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:50 am

NFBC Premier Championship.

Hmmm ...

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:59 am

NFBC XII

simple, direct. Easy to market.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:26 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

NFBC XII

simple, direct. Easy to market. I like the last two. Now we're onto something. Roman Numerals make it stand out, as the NFL learned. Good job. Much better than I had before.

Potter · Post by **Potter** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:39 am

Forget the name. I'm more interested in the rules. As in not allowing anyone north of the Mason-Dixon line or individuals who's job requires them to say "pig sooie", to play. Think of the money you'd save not having to pay for the bonus insurance.

Bob Enzyte · Post by **Bob Enzyte** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:53 am

Call it the BIG 10 or BIG X. That means that there is 12 teams. Em, we pig guys just say sooie. The pigs already know that they are pigs.

wahooblue · Post by **wahooblue** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:04 am

2012 N.F.B.C. XII

12 Team Premier

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:19 am

The only problem I see with NFBC XII is that it reminds me of the Super Bowl. Off first glance it makes me think that it's referring to the 12th year of the NFBC and not the number of teams per league in this event.

Spartacus · Post by **Spartacus** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:54 am

Some good names here and I like the visual of roman numerals, as

Steve proposed.(Spartacus likes roman numerals

) I'll throw a couple more into the ring:

NFBC Grand Challenge

NFBC Ultra Tournament

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:28 pm

NFBC Junior Circuit Championship - fits the profile as the NFBC's younger league.

Skip the non-descriptive superlatives and go with some baseball lingo.

[ November 11, 2011, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

BEF · Post by **BEF** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:08 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Whatever the name, I'd skip the non-descriptive adjectives and go with some baseball lingo. Here is a list of players who wore the number 12:

Wes Ferrell (Red Sox)

Bobo Newsome (Red Sox)

Pumpsie Green (Red Sox)

Bobby Avila (Red Sox)

Jose Tartabull (Red Sox)

Ernest Riles (Red Sox)

Ellis Burks (Red Sox)

Freddy Sanchez (Pirates)

Jeff Kent (Dodgers)

Roberto Alomar (Mets)

Todd Walker (Red Sox)

Cliff Floyd (Red Sox)

Mark Belhorn (Red Sox)

Eric Hinske (Red Sox)

Jed Lowrie (Red Sox)

Dusty Baker (Cubs, Manager)

Alfonso Soriano (Cubs)

Andre Thorton (Cubs)

Davey Lopes (Cubs)

Ken O'Dea (Cubs)

Graig Nettles (Indians)

Billy Martin (Reds)

Steve Finley (Rockies)

Matt Stairs (Royals)

Phil Nevin (Tigers)

Willie Randolph (Dodgers)

Clint Barmes (Rockies)

Jose Ortiz (Rockies)

Bernie Carbo (Brewers)

Henry Blanco (Brewers)

Ben Grieve (Brewers)

Eddie Perez (Brewers)

Danny Walton (Brewers)

Waite Hoyt (Yankees)

Herb Pennock (Yankees)

Vic Raschi (Yankees)

Ron Blomberg (Yankees)

John Mayberry (Yankees)

Kenny Lofton (Yankees)

Andy Phillips (Yankees)

Wade Boggs (Yankees)

Roger Clemens (Yankees)

Denny Neagle (Yankees)

Tony Womack (Yankees)

Clete Boyer (Athletics)

Mark Langston (Mariners)

Edgar Alfonzo (Giants)

Donnie Murphy (Athletics)

Terrence Long (Athletics)

Some HOFers, some good players, some bums. But perhaps the player with the most historical significance is Pumpsie Green, the first African-American ballplayer for the Red Sox who didn't play for them until 1959, a full 12 years after Jackie broke the line. The Sawx, under their racist owner Tom Yawkey, were the last team in major league baseball to integrate.

Call it "The Pumpsie Championship"? Or just "The Pumpsie"?

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:12 am

I like the Roman numerals.....maybe the Main Event should use them. This year will be

NFBC IX

and then come up with a name for the 12 team

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:18 am

Originally posted by Navel Lint:

I like the Roman numerals.....maybe the Main Event should use them. This year will be

NFBC IX

and then come up with a name for the 12 team Agreed.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:52 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by Navel Lint:

I like the Roman numerals.....maybe the Main Event should use them. This year will be

NFBC IX

and then come up with a name for the 12 team Agreed. [/QUOTE]same here, like this for the main event

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:25 pm

Originally posted by Navel Lint:

I like the Roman numerals.....maybe the Main Event should use them. This year will be

NFBC IX

and then come up with a name for the 12 team Exactly what I was alluding to.

Well if we go in that direction, we can still utilize Jupinka's idea....just without the roman numerals.

We can call the new contest the NFBC Twelve.

I can hear it now......

"I'll be playing in both the Main and the Twelve this year."

"You playing just the Main or are you doing the Twelve as well?"

"I'm sucking a$$ in the Main this year, but I'm top 5 in the Twelve."

Just a thought.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:51 pm

Because the MAIN EVENT will/should always retain the same status, I think the Champ hit the nail on the head with:

"NFBC XII"

Simple, direct. Easy to market. Good stuff SJ

Now, my one beef. Paying me 1/2 of my entry fee for coming in third place is insulting. If I can/t at the very least break even, I don't deserve to cash. If you are looking at 25 leagues - take that $500 x 25 ( $12,500 )

and slap another $10,000 for the overall winner $50,000 SOUNDS better. Toss $2,000 to the poor guy in second. $10,000 also sounds better. and use that $500 left to round out 4th overall to $3,000.

Last thing I want for finishing in third place ( $500 ) is an amount that is half of what I paid to get into this event ( $1000) and have to declare as PRIZE WINNINGS to Uncle Sam.

Which is exactly how it is viewed at year end. So why create this minor headache for your customers and spread the wealth to those people who can REALLY claim this as PRIZE WINNINGS.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:02 pm

I agree with Ken 100% that 3rd place isn't needed if you aren't at least getting your money back. In fact, I agree that 3rd place isn't even needed in a 12-teamer.

I like Ken's suggested prize structure.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:49 pm

Originally posted by Sack:

Because the MAIN EVENT will/should always retain the same status, I think the Champ hit the nail on the head with:

"NFBC XII"

Simple, direct. Easy to market. Good stuff SJ

Now, my one beef. Paying me 1/2 of my entry fee for coming in third place is insulting. If I can/t at the very least break even, I don't deserve to cash. If you are looking at 25 leagues - take that $500 x 25 ( $12,500 )

and slap another $10,000 for the overall winner $50,000 SOUNDS better. Toss $2,000 to the poor guy in second. $10,000 also sounds better. and use that $500 left to round out 4th overall to $3,000.

Last thing I want for finishing in third place ( $500 ) is an amount that is half of what I paid to get into this event ( $1000) and have to declare as PRIZE WINNINGS to Uncle Sam.

Which is exactly how it is viewed at year end. So why create this minor headache for your customers and spread the wealth to those people who can REALLY claim this as PRIZE WINNINGS. You may be insulted and we can do it this way if folks want. But in your proposal we're taking payouts from 25 people to bump up the grand prize for one owner. And yes, we did just pay two winners per league in the Live Double Play last year and those payouts were 4x for first and 1.4x for second. So that contest was heavy on the overall prizes.

I was trying to make this heavier on league prizes and pay out 25 more league winners. And at $500, it's less than the taxable $600 needed. Now some of you may play multiple events and thus need to claim this prize, but again this contest is designed with a lot of new players in mind and it's possible this might be the only prize they win as one of the few NFBC contests they play in. Thus it wouldn't be taxable.

I have no problem having the debate about 2 league prizes or 3 league prizes and a $40,000 grand prize vs. a $50,000 grand prize. Those are worthy debates and one I was waiting for someone to intelligently start. Instead folks seemed to focus on the name of the contest. I was hoping this would come soon. But I didn't expect anyone to say that creating a prize that pays off 25 more players is INSULTING. At least that wasn't the intent.

Okay, so forget about the name. Now let's debate 2 league prizes vs. 3 league prizes and using more money for the one grand prize vs. stronger league prizes. I'm ready to referee the debate.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:52 pm

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

I agree with Ken 100% that 3rd place isn't needed if you aren't at least getting your money back. In fact, I agree that 3rd place isn't even needed in a 12-teamer.

I like Ken's suggested prize structure. We also have third place league prizes in the NFFC Primetime and there are third place league prizes in other high-stakes contests. We did not have a third place league prize in the NFBC Double Play to increase the overall prize pool and we don't have third place league prizes in the NFBC Online Championship. So again, there's no right way or wrong way.

I'm open for the discussion and will make the call that everyone thinks is best. But to say third place isn't needed isn't totally accurate when in most high-stakes contests third place is already offered to league finishers and it's less than the entry fee, which it should be in 12-team leagues.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:20 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:

I agree with Ken 100% that 3rd place isn't needed if you aren't at least getting your money back. In fact, I agree that 3rd place isn't even needed in a 12-teamer.

I like Ken's suggested prize structure. We also have third place league prizes in the NFFC Primetime and there are third place league prizes in other high-stakes contests. We did not have a third place league prize in the NFBC Double Play to increase the overall prize pool and we don't have third place league prizes in the NFBC Online Championship. So again, there's no right way or wrong way.

I'm open for the discussion and will make the call that everyone thinks is best. But to say third place isn't needed isn't totally accurate when in most high-stakes contests third place is already offered to league finishers and it's less than the entry fee, which it should be in 12-team leagues. [/QUOTE]I could be wrong Greg, so please correct me if I am. However I believe in the Primetime and other events that pay 3rd place, you at minimum get your buy-in back.

Either way, I have no problem with your initial prize structure. It's just that the reason I would be joining up for this contest isn't because of a half your buy-in 3rd place prize, as a newcomer or veteran. Bump up the overall prizes or bump up the league winner prize. Either of those options would be more of an attraction towards the contest in my eyes. I don't think the $500 3rd place prize would be a reason anyone would play or not play the contest, while a bigger overall or league winning prize might be.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:33 pm

Glenn, NFFC Primetime has league prizes of $5,200 for 1st, $2,600 for 2nd and $700 for 3rd on a $1,400 entry. Nobody said third place was INSULTING and in fact I'm sure most fantasy football players expect a third place prize.

FFPC's league third place prize is $500 on a $1,550 league entry. Nobody called that insulting.

Again, I agree it's a legitimate debate to go with a $50,000 grand prize over a $40,000 grand prize and we can do that by eliminating the third place league prize. I seriously thought about that. In fact, I've become so convinced that this contest can succeed that I'm basing prizes on 300 teams rather than my original estimate of 240. I believe the strong league prizes can help us get there.

But if folks believe third place in the league isn't needed I'll concede. Let's have that debate, but at least let's have the facts straight. A third place league prize less than the entry fee in a 12-team league is common, not an exception. And in our original thread about this contest there were several posters who said they wanted a third place league prize rather than bigger overall prizes. So let's hear from everyone and find a good way to spread this $12,500. My ears are open to smart posts.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:37 pm

I stand corrected. However, it shows you how much I pay attention to the 3rd place prize amounts when entering these contests.

Of course, considering how I'm doing in the Primetime this year, I'd be real happy to make it up to 3rd and get half my buy-in back.

Either way Greg, you can likely count on me being a part of this contest.